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Old 12-29-2006, 12:57 PM   #1
BigBuddhaPup
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Default Executing Hussein is a bad idea

Executing Hussein is a bad idea because of the following... it will make him a Sunni martyr... it will make the civil war between Sunni and Shia escalate... it would be better to keep him in a cell for the rest of his life, make him small and insignificant, without power...

This will make things much worse...
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Old 12-29-2006, 01:21 PM   #2
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BBP, as usual I agree with everything you say. I'm sure York will come in here and call us Saddam sympathizers and terrorists loving liberals, but oh well, at least we can think for ourselves.
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Old 12-29-2006, 01:52 PM   #3
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The death penalty is never right.
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Old 12-29-2006, 04:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBuddhaPup View Post
Executing Hussein is a bad idea because of the following... it will make him a Sunni martyr... it will make the civil war between Sunni and Shia escalate... it would be better to keep him in a cell for the rest of his life, make him small and insignificant, without power...

This will make things much worse...


BBP, You are a wise man. Many in the Middle East are saying the same thing. The best thing that could happen is to let Saddam just fade away. Killing him will only cause more killing.
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:55 PM   #5
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This is an easy prophesy. I'd be more surprised if nothing happens after his execution. What do you suppose the Bush administration estimates for loss of troops as a result? I'm sure they have estimates. I wonder how many American lives are acceptable for executing Hussein?
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Old 12-29-2006, 08:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenPoe View Post
This is an easy prophesy. I'd be more surprised if nothing happens after his execution. What do you suppose the Bush administration estimates for loss of troops as a result? I'm sure they have estimates. I wonder how many American lives are acceptable for executing Hussein?
Poe, Almost 3,000 so far, probably many more to come. Bush will have revenge on Saddam for "messin' with my daddy".
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Old 12-29-2006, 08:59 PM   #7
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It is such a complicated issue. The Sunni vs Shiite conflict is so deep, with so many twists, subgroups which cross lines and join each other at different times, and of course so many centuries of religious history way beyond what any of us Westerners know or could even totally understand. Here is a pretty good explanation as to the intricate puzzle we seem to see only as black and white.
http://www.milnet.com/mid-east-news/...vs-Shiite.html

It is a good and pretty quick read and breaks down all the subgroups by countries and the complexities of the Middle East real well.

My main objection to us ever getting involved over there (excluding our own need and greed for oil) is that we don't have a clue to these people's feelings and prejudices and just have no business getting involved with something so complex which doesn't involve the direct security in our part of the world, our religious beliefs, or our culture. We have just gotten into a mess that we never needed to, at least at this point in time.

This week I also watched an excellant show on the History channel entitled "Bible Battles" which was a reflection of the true history of the early Israelites from Abraham and Jacob's time (some 3000 yrs ago) and their military conquests, ruthlessness, and slaughter of whole towns, men, women, and children. It was an eye opener. I had never seen anything historically discussed quite from just a military standpoint. Here is a synopsis:
http://www.history.com/shows.do?acti...isodeId=173387

Try to catch it in the future if you can.
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Old 12-29-2006, 10:23 PM   #8
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Saddam was judged by his peers and will be executed by his countrymen... I fail to see the "bad idea" anywhere?

I wish we could gain possession of the hanging rope and deliver it to the cave were Osama bin Laden is hiding... send it FEDEX... those guys can find any address!

Saddam's trial and imminent hanging lends credence to our position in Iraq... justification justified...'

Saddam is Satan's problem now...
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Old 12-30-2006, 12:27 AM   #9
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Hussein won't become a Sunni martyr... at most, he'll become a martyr for a small revolutionary faction that wants to see the old power structure restored. Most of Iraq—including most Sunnis in Iraq—have a vested interest in seeing this not happen. Nobody who wants to hold power himself is going to use Hussein's memory, outside of those who benefited from his rule in the first place. To do so would make it too likely—and too easy—for that specific group of people to return to power.

I doubt we'll hear much of anything about him once a few weeks have passed. On the other hand, keeping him in jail forever serves no useful purpose and gives those who still adhere to him a living figure to focus on. Get rid of him and let them fight each other for the succession. Never mind the fact that it's the Iraqis' choice to hang him... we don't want to interfere in the limited functionings of their judicial system that have been restored.

Besides, Spandau was closed years ago....
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Old 12-30-2006, 12:33 AM   #10
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Ravana,

You're smart enough to know that that's not how martyrdom works. It has no logic, just fury of emotion. We'll see, for sure! I withhold the right to issue an "I told you so".

Restored to what? Iraq isn't a country, Ravana. It's a British invention. They had no judicial system to revert to. If we're gonna impart western values, shouldn't we impart the entire gambit of western values? The logic (or lack there of) is absolutely dumbfounding to me.
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Old 12-30-2006, 12:59 AM   #11
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About the martyrdom: we'll see. And yes, you're more than welcome to say "I told you so" if you turn out to be correct. I'm not talking about anything we see in the first couple of weeks after his death; I'm talking about six months or a year onward. Someone will try to take advantage of it, of course: but it won't last. He was too unpopular a figure to be made into an effective martyr.

About "restored": I mean that those people who were in power under Hussein will seek to be restored to power. Those are the people most likely to try to make Hussein a martyr. The rest of the nation—including the rest of the Sunnis, who weren't in power under him—have different agendas, and won't want to make it easier for the old power to return. That's why I don't think they'll use him as a martyr. And that they'll regret it if they do.

Iraq had some form of judicial system prior to the invasion—generally a very arbitrary one, but it did exist. That wasn't what I was referring to, though, in "reverting," nor in "not interfering" with it: I was suggesting it would be a mistake to interfere with the one they have now... no matter how limited it might be. Besides, Western law would've executed him, too, so it's not a question of imposing any sort of difference there. Well, we would've... most of the rest of the West has done away with the death penalty. I can't remember if the Hague still uses it... think it's still on the books.
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Old 12-30-2006, 03:15 AM   #12
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Just like "western law" has executed Manson, right? Careful with those generalizations about occidental thought. They always come back to bite you.
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Old 12-30-2006, 03:31 AM   #13
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I've got no problems with the execution. My only question is how much input, if any, the US Government had in the timing of this. Not in that it's coming around an Islamic holiday, but the man had a lot of bull**** in his head. Secrets, knowledge about what some of these others might really be capable of, that sort of thing. I'd only care for him to be alive until they know for certain they've extracted everything they could out of him in that regard. Not saying they haven't, as I'm not in a position of knowledge on this.

I mean, damn, just got done watching the prequel for Season 6 of 24 and the Chinese got some information out of JACK BAUER when he refused to talk. DublinMike, if you're venturing over to these parts, they were sneaky as hell, Bauer isn't giving up that information willingly.
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Old 12-30-2006, 03:52 AM   #14
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I suspect that 24 is the extent of a lot of American political knowledge. Have we extracted the knowledge from Saddam? Too bad he's not a fetus, he'd get tons of sympathy from the republicans then. He'd, after all, be amoral then, right? We should kill everyone that commits a crime. I hope your mothers are the next ones to commit crimes. I'll be watching and cheering when they inject them. "Kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill KILL"! God dammit! We can't kill these bastards fast enough. Maybe we should have aborted them when they were still fetuses.

I just wanted to have some logical discussion without any sarcasm, but I guess that was asking too much. ROTFLMAO! :lol:

His name is George Orwell. I'm pulling out Animal Farm right now. I'm gonna reread it.
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Old 12-30-2006, 04:16 AM   #15
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I have no intention of limiting a woman's right to choose,; I only wish to limit the choices available to her.

This debate is null; we'll have to agree to disagree because your points are invalid. Unless you disagree. (That's a good one)

Every person born should automatically be endowed with liberty as a God given right, but liberty should not be taken for granted. (another good one)

Our government shouldn't exist to make sure people are ok, but only to protect people.


We should make a thread of this stuff. lol
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