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Old 01-05-2007, 04:52 PM   #76
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Cure,
Please provide those clips of the plane hitting the pentagon.
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Old 01-05-2007, 05:38 PM   #77
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I'm all for questioning the government, but come on people. If it wasn't a plane and wasn't a missile than what hit it?
I think they have been watching to much Swordfish or The Art of War, to think it was the govt.
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ALTHOUGH....Maybe it was a rogue faction from Area 51 that stole a saucer and piloted into the Pentagon and then beamed themselves away before impact....OR it could have been a super-secret government missile that was loaded with 757 parts to make us think that it was a plane.
Now this is a theory I can grasp, are you sure your not one of them conspiracy theorist?
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I watch Space Ghost Coast to Coast, does that count.
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Old 01-05-2007, 06:04 PM   #78
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Yeah..it's much more feasible to think it was a dozen middle eastern guys with limited training in single engine planes that pulled off maneuvers that experienced pilots call impossible.

With the abundance of honesty and straightforwardness the US government has shown in the past, especially regarding the reasons to start wars, I can see why the people that question the 50+ "coincidences" and downright BS explanations are crazy and the sheep that just accept without using their heads aren't.

Still waiting for that picture of the plane at the pentagon and an explanation for building 7 going straight down due to "fire" 7 hours after the towers fell.

Oh wait...George Bush said it was fire and it was a plane, so it must be true. Still waiting on tose WMD's too.....yawn
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Old 01-05-2007, 06:09 PM   #79
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Don't install the SETI virus on your computers. If you want to aid in the search for extra-terrestrials, join NASA.

There is more than likely life on other planets. If it's intelligent life, they face the same time/space rules that we do so they won't be coming here unless they live to be 20,000 years old. Even then they'd need a 50 billion gallon gas tank.
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Old 01-05-2007, 06:39 PM   #80
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Marino,

I think there is a tendency among people to WANT to accept things like the traditional stories. It is much easier to live life thinking that the US government would never do anything horrible than it is to question things like 9/11. I seriously think there could be footage of a missile hitting the pentagon and most people would not believe it. I like how people on here are trying to link this theory to other outrageous theories. Seriously, I don't expect everyone to buy into the idea that the government was behind 9/11, but at least consider it. Most of the people on here probably never even gave the idea a chance. They immediately wrote it off as crazy talk and therefore all of the evidence they see from now on is useless because they have already made up their minds.

But hey Marino, it's nice to see that there are still people out there who are not willing to accept everything we are told. It's nice to see some people still like to question authority and acknowledge that we might be getting attacked by those who are supposed to protect us. Don't lose your fervor, if it weren't for people like you and me, we'd still be living under dictatorships.
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Old 01-05-2007, 06:51 PM   #81
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I hear ya...

Regarding aliens and such, that's for the nutjobs IMO...but when it comes to the US government, I don't put anything past them. Thay have a history of manipulating the US citizens to justify war.

President McKinley told the American people that the USS Maine had been sunk in Havana Harbor by a Spanish mine. The American people, outraged by this apparent unprovoked attack, supported the Spanish American War. The Captain of the USS Maine had insisted the ship was sunk by a coal bin explosion, investigations after the war proved that such had indeed been the case. There had been no mine.

FDR claimed Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack. It wasn't. The United States saw war with Japan as the means to get into war with Germany, which Americans opposed. So Roosevelt needed Japan to appear to strike first. Following an 8-step plan devised by the Office of Naval Intelligence, Roosevelt intentionally provoked Japan into the attack. Contrary to the official story, the fleet did not maintain radio silence, but sent messages intercepted and decoded by US intercept stations. Tricked by the lie of a surprise attack, Americans marched off to war. Here's the link

President Johnson lied about the Gulf of Tonkin to send Americans off to fight in Vietnam. There were no torpedoes in the water in the Gulf. LBJ took advantage of an inexperienced sonar man's report to goad Congress into escalating the Vietnam War.

Even Hitler used this principle of lying to his own people to initiate an invasion. He told the people of Germany that Poland had attacked first and staged fake attacks against German targets. The Germans, convinced they were being threatened, followed Hitler into Poland and into World War 2.

How many times does this shyt have to happen before people stop blindly believing the government??
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Old 01-05-2007, 07:43 PM   #82
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Or the sheep that use their heads and don't see any substantial prove to make them think otherwise! People want to see proof of the plane in the building well how about providing the proof that it was the govt. and I'm not talking about some nutjob conspiracy theorist either.
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Old 01-05-2007, 07:57 PM   #83
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There are certain things that provoke questions

The size of the hole at the pentagon crash site and lack of plane debris coupled with the fact that they identified bodies even though an entire airplane was vaporized.

How about the fact that the heat generated in the towers and in building 7 wan't intense enough to melt steel, yet they blame that for the falls, even though they were built to withstand it.

How about the fact that debris from flight 93 was found 8 miles away and farther from the crash site, yet the governemnt denies shooting it down?

What about George Bush sitting with thise kids for a half hour after hearing that the US was being attacked?

Why was the steel (evidence) from the towers immediately shipped overseas even though the engineers investigating the crime scene and the families of the victims adamantly tried to stop it? Who destroys evidence with nothing to hide?

Once again, why did they confiscate the tapes of the pentagon and release 3 second clips showing nothing with nothing to hide?

Why did Bin Laden deny being responsible?


One or 2 inconsistencies can be explained away, but there are these and dozens more. You just need to open your eyes to the facts
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Old 01-05-2007, 08:16 PM   #84
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If 9/11 was truely a terrorist attack, it would lack explanation to the common person. It wouldn't make sense and would lead them to ask questions such as, "how did this happen?", "why did this happen?". I will not fault anyone for believing anything. You are all entitled to your own opinions about this. But I fear this and other conspiracies are often driven by one sole factor: That in the ABSENCE of an explanation, we begin to search for one. If the search does not provide us with adequate truth, then we begin to CREATE an explanation. Like I said, I fault no one for their thoughts. I have read up on this a lot, and some things I do find fishy. But I think a lot of people driving the 9/11 conspiracy started to do so with an intent of CREATING an explanation, which is wrong. Hopefully my psychobabble makes sense a little.

Oh, and marino. In the interest of accuracy, I think Bush sat with the kids for 9 minutes, not a half an hour. Neither is acceptable, but when dealing with this stuff, those exaggerations are dangerous! (i am going with my gut on the nine minutes, thus breaking my own rule, but I swear that was the time, wasn't this in that fat guy's conspiracy movie?)
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Old 01-05-2007, 08:32 PM   #85
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I hear what you're saying about lacking explanation of how could it happen, but the questions I'm asking have been explained.

They want us to believe that fires took down these buildings and metal doesn't melt until 1500 degrees...the max was 600 at the site. They also found molten metal under the towers a week after...the only thing that could cause that is thermite which means it was a controlled demolition.

What they claim defies the laws of physics...if it were an uncontrolled demolition the buildings wouldn't have fallen so quickly and so straight...they would have toppled.

Like I said...too many explanations already handed out don't make sense and the other questions are yet to be addressed. The 9-11 commisiion didn't even mention building 7. What does that tell you?

I don't have the answers, but the ones given by the government are pure BS and are for the most part physically impossible.

From what I've read here, Bush at 9:03 a.m.—fifteen minutes after it was clear the United States was under terrorist attack—sat down with a classroom of second-graders and begin a 20-minute pre-planned photo op.
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Old 01-05-2007, 11:47 PM   #86
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I agree with those of you who mentioned questioning the government, rather than just believing everything they say. Our government, along with most, have a history of deceiving their people. The less people question the government, the more power we give to them.

It's not about giving the government a hard time, it is about helping to keep the government in check.
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Old 01-06-2007, 12:30 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marino13 View Post
I hear what you're saying about lacking explanation of how could it happen, but the questions I'm asking have been explained.

They want us to believe that fires took down these buildings and metal doesn't melt until 1500 degrees...the max was 600 at the site. They also found molten metal under the towers a week after...the only thing that could cause that is thermite which means it was a controlled demolition.

What they claim defies the laws of physics...if it were an uncontrolled demolition the buildings wouldn't have fallen so quickly and so straight...they would have toppled.

Like I said...too many explanations already handed out don't make sense and the other questions are yet to be addressed. The 9-11 commisiion didn't even mention building 7. What does that tell you?

I don't have the answers, but the ones given by the government are pure BS and are for the most part physically impossible.

From what I've read here, Bush at 9:03 a.m.—fifteen minutes after it was clear the United States was under terrorist attack—sat down with a classroom of second-graders and begin a 20-minute pre-planned photo op.
Actually the max temperature was much higher than that. Just because the highrst measured temperature eas 600 means nothing. The temperature seconds after impact was when it would have been the hottest.

What is your proof that 9/11 was a controlled attack?
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Old 01-06-2007, 02:30 AM   #88
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I'm trying to find those pics for ya'll (saw them on a PBS special I think, but not sure....)

But in the meantime:

Melted" Steel
CLAIM: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."
--------

The Trade Centers were build with a novel construction technique which enabled them to have much more open floor space than a traditional tower. There was a central column structure that housed the elevators, stairwells, etc, and an exterior tube structure. Connecting them were steel trusses. The impact destroyed portions of the outer tube structure and the inner core structure, while at the same time blowing much of the fireproofing off the trusses. Then you had thousands of gallons of jetfuel ignite, which in turn caused everything else inside the buildings to ignite. As the steel in the trusses got hot they got soft and failed....then the towers came down.

http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce.pdf

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...42.html?page=1

Like I've said before, I cannot stand Bush or his cronies, and I'm all for questioning the government....but pick your battles, people. This one is a non-starter.
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Old 01-08-2007, 01:59 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by RavenPoe View Post
Don't install the SETI virus on your computers. If you want to aid in the search for extra-terrestrials, join NASA.

There is more than likely life on other planets. If it's intelligent life, they face the same time/space rules that we do so they won't be coming here unless they live to be 20,000 years old. Even then they'd need a 50 billion gallon gas tank.
:lol: Virus eh? Well sorry I don't give links to viruses. I used the program for over two years without a problem.
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:42 PM   #90
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I'm trying to find those pics for ya'll (saw them on a PBS special I think, but not sure....)

You can give up now...they don't exist

and regarding the collapse by fire, I still say BS. It wouldn't have come down so cleanly and so quickly. There would have been resistance..and also the middle columns wouldn't have fallen if the "pancake" theory were true.
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