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Old 06-01-2003, 08:26 PM   #16
buckeyefan78
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10. Antoine Winfield
8. Dan Wilkinson
7. Ahmed Plummer
6. Nate Clements
5. Joey Galloway
4. Shawn Springs
3. Orlando Pace
2. Eddie George
1. David Boston

Anyone see anything wrong with that?...lol. I know Joey, I'm sabatoging the board again with Buckeye stuff.
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Old 06-01-2003, 08:50 PM   #17
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Brad, good points on Barber. Barber in the combination of tackling and playing in Cover 2 zone defenses is more than likely the best corner in the league.

I do have a difference of opinion though. When you put Barber on an island one on one I don't think he is in the top 5 in the NFL. But given the fact that the Bucs don't leave him on an island all that much your point is very valid that he is the best corner in the league. We will once again, agree to disagree on this subject.

Buckeye....LOL

I love the top 10, but as a typical Buckeye fan you only put 9 on your list you left out the number 9....you know I had to get you on that one...lol.

Joey
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Old 06-02-2003, 12:13 AM   #18
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Originally posted by I OWN THIS
We will once again, agree to disagree on this subject.
I can go with that. I concede that Barber probably wouldn't be as good if he were in man coverage every down -- although I think he'd still be an elite CB -- and I appreciate your admission that Ronde "is more than likely the best corner in the league."

btw, all, if our votes are taken as a whole, the top of the list would be

3. Gannon
2. Harrison
1. Holmes
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Old 06-02-2003, 03:08 AM   #19
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I seriously have to wonder, how does Donovan McNabb only make The J's list? Ogden over McNabb? I really disagree there, but then again...that's just me.

If I honestly had to pick a Top 10 for the upcoming NFL season, It would be

10. Randy Moss
9. Marshall Faulk
8. Ricky Williams
7. Derek Brooks
6. Michael Vick
5. Brett Favre
4. Clinton Portis
3. Donovan McNabb
2. Priest Holmes
1. Terrell Owens

Last edited by Bran; 06-02-2003 at 03:52 AM.
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Old 06-02-2003, 10:23 AM   #20
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Brian, you have every right to disagree with my top 10, for I have major stretches in Peppers, Portis, Tomlinson, Ogden and others. I do believe that Ogden is a top 3 offensive lineman in the league though.

I am glad to see that Marvin Harrison is getting his just dues by being in the top 3 on this board. I have a great of respect for Harrison, for he does what he is supposed to do without all the flash and arrogance. He does not always make the freak of nature plays like Owens and Moss, but he is the most consistent wide receiver in the league today.

Joey
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Old 06-02-2003, 11:54 PM   #21
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Not so fast on Harrison Joey ( trying to make up for my numbering error earlier). Does this man go across the middle? Does this man take hits? Does this man block? Ah, no, no, no. I've seen him take a knee a million times when he could have fought for more yardage. I'd take Hines Ward over Harrison anyday.

BTW Joey...Don't trash this post. I think I did good here...LOL.
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Old 06-03-2003, 12:54 PM   #22
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Buckeye, you did very well. You know what, I really like Hines Ward. He is definitely the best blocking wide receiver, and if he is not the best blocker at the wide receiver position then I would like to know who might be. Ward was 2nd in the NFL in receptions with 112, but that was 31 behind Harrison who had 143. Harrison also had the edge of course in receiving yardage, but Ward was in the top 5 in that category as well....those numbers were 1,722 for Harrison and 1,329 for Ward.

Now lets talk about yards per reception, it is about even with Harrison having a 12.0 yards per catch figure and Ward having 11.9 yards per catch. Those figures were not the best in the NFL, but both Harrison and Ward placed in the top 3 for TDs receiving as well. So, as we are seeing not much of a gap between these 2.

Ward is certainly not getting the respect via the top 10 on this board, but maybe he should. Those numbers from last season are pretty amazing. The major difference between the 2 is that Ward has another guy on his team who accounted for 78 catches in Burress. Randle El even had 47 catches as well, Indy's 2nd leading receiver from a season ago only had 49 receptions. Burress also was in the top 5 in receiving yardage a season ago, so obviously Burress takes a huge load off of Ward.

Dave would know better than I would being that he is a Steeler fan, but does Ward get near as many double coverages as Harrison does? I would think not.

Like I stated, I love Ward's passion, heart, and attitude, and yes he can be compared to Harrison for what he did last season, but I don't think I would take Ward over Harrison at this stage. Good points though Buckeye, and we will of course disagree on this subject.

Joey
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Old 06-03-2003, 01:04 PM   #23
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1. Mike Vick.

Nuff said.
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Old 06-03-2003, 04:19 PM   #24
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Plax draws most of the double teams for the Steelers, from what I've seen. And rightly so. He's tall, has soft hands, and get go anywhere on the field he wants to go.

Where Plax is the prototypical big receiver, Ward is the tough guy, as 78 kindly alluded to. Even you noted, Joey, that his downfield run-blocking separates him from most other receivers. Ward separates himself in another, if gimmicky, way. He can throw the ball. The Steelers don't ask him to do it very often, but when he does, the play usually succeeds. Note that there were two 2-point conversions (one against Cleveland in the playoffs, the other I forget when, but near season's end) where Ward and Randle El got to throw passes on sweet option-style plays. One, if I remember right, was Randle El taking the snap, optioning to Hines Ward, who threw to Plax. Against Cleveland they changed that up a bit, having Randle El fake the pitch to Ward, and finding a tight end (they were all so banged up, I don't remember who played against Cleveland). Sweet stuff.

Ward is underrated, but I think that's a good thing, at least from a Steelers fan point of view. Let him make the catches over the middle and keep the chains moving, I say. Plax is for touchdowns. Randle El... well... he's less a blocker, but a speedy receiver in the slot.

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Old 06-03-2003, 06:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by MountaineerDave
Ward separates himself in another, if gimmicky, way. He can throw the ball.


Dave
Dave, he really has some talent at QB. I remember him putting up 400+ yards for UGA in the Peach Bowl.
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Old 06-03-2003, 08:54 PM   #26
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Plax gets the double teams, and rightly so, if he gets into the open field, it's pretty much over. Perhaps the emergence of a Steelers passing game ( hey, the Steelers throw the ball?) has lessened the load on Ward. Still, there is something to be said for a guy who wants to beat you up during timeouts. The image I have of Harrison is one of him catching the ball in the dome, and then going for the sidelines. Ward is a better team leader and just the guy I want on my team.

I like Randle El too Dave. The trickery was a nice change of pace from the Steelers usual routine.
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Old 06-03-2003, 11:27 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by I OWN THIS
You know what, I really like Hines Ward. He is definitely the best blocking wide receiver, and if he is not the best blocker at the wide receiver position then I would like to know who might be.
Keyshawn. If he put on ten pounds he could play tight end, and he'd be better than that punk Hurricane in Jersey.
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Old 06-04-2003, 09:07 AM   #28
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Keyshawn is a good run blocker who doesn't get credit for it... I don't know if he's better than Ward, but I'll allow a difference of opinion....


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Old 06-04-2003, 01:34 PM   #29
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I could put Keyshawn in with Ward, not a stretch there. But Harrison, no way. I've grown to like Keyshawn more and more as he has improved his run blocking skills and his temper is now directed at winning instead of just youthfull antics. I liked it when he went nuts in the Bucs playoff game at the end of the first half cause Mooch didn't try a bomb. Harrison would have already been on the sidelines, his favorite place to go with or without the ball.
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Old 06-04-2003, 02:05 PM   #30
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Buckeye, that was Terrell Owens who went nuts on Mooch before halftime, as the 49ers were trailing the Bucs by a decent amount.

Buckeye, I also feel like your being too hard on Harrison. Harrison is not the only wide out who steps out of bounds trying to avoid contact and injury. Quite frankly, I don't blame him. Issac Bruce and other receivers in the NFL can be faulted for falling down and stepping out of bounds on a consistent basis. Harrison is more than key to Indy's offensive success, and I guarantee you Dungy and Manning don't have any problem with Harrison avoiding huge hits by stepping out of bounds or falling down without taking a hit. Harrison gets hurt or injuried and the Colts are basically through.

I would never question Harrison's desire because he steps out of bounds, for I think the guy does have passion. Harrison is a very low key guy, who always gets the job done under just about any circumstance. I have great respect for Harrison and his game.

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