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Old 01-05-2009, 03:05 PM   #1
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Default Obama to use Lincoln's Bible...

"Washington, D.C. - On January 20th, President-elect Barack Obama will take the oath of office using the same Bible upon which President Lincoln was sworn in at his first inauguration. The Bible is currently part of the collections of the Library of Congress. Though there is no constitutional requirement for the use of a Bible during the swearing-in, Presidents have traditionally used Bibles for the ceremony, choosing a volume with personal or historical significance. President-elect Obama will be the first President sworn in using the Lincoln Bible since its initial use in 1861.

Politico.com

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16813.html

**********************************************************

Well, if it was good enough for one spineless bigoted coward who only acted when politics dictated action...guess it's good for this one.

At the very least Lincoln was a Christian. Plus he was moderately to severely mentally ill.

What's The Savior's excuse?
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:05 PM   #2
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While I am not suprised to hear you aren't a big Abraham Lincoln guy, I think your assessment of his life is more than a little unfair.

Here's a more moderate stance on his life from the leading civil rights leader of Lincoln's time:

http://www.teachingamericanhistory.o...cumentprint=39

BTW, I don't understand these comparisons between Lincoln and Obama by the media. Other than their home state, they seem to have little in common, and the troubles that awaited Lincoln on his inauguration day make Obama's look like Disney World.
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:12 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 View Post
At the very least Lincoln was a Christian.
Are you sure about that?

"The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.
I could never give assent to the long complicated statements
of Christian dogma."

- Abe Lincoln

I have a feeling he was "Christian," in the same way Obama is.

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BTW, I don't understand these comparisons between Lincoln and Obama by the media. Other than their home state, they seem to have little in common
Both are tall, thin men with relative lack of experience, coming from modest means, heavily motivated by civil rights/justice, great oratory skills, idealistic, willingness to be controversial, promises of unity, masters of stagecraft and timing, both write their own speeches (at least some of them), similar temperment (calm), strong emphasis on humility, mastery of the English language and constitutional law, etc...

And while you may think that Obama faces far fewer problems than Lincoln, both entered the office when America was in great turmoil.

And finally, the fact that Lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation, freeing black Americans, and Obama represents the first black president - leads some to draw the comparison in terms of racial advancement... (granted freeing the slaves had much more of a real a drastic impact on black people than the election of a black president, but I'm talking about symolism).
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:07 PM   #4
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And finally, the fact that Lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation, freeing black Americans, and Obama represents the first black president - leads some to draw the comparison in terms of racial advancement... (granted freeing the slaves had much more of a real a drastic impact on black people than the election of a black president, but I'm talking about symolism).

The emancipation proclamation only "freed" the slaves in the Confederacy, not the Union states. I will say that he was a master politician.

I would say that they are common in how they are well-spoken and intellectual. I'd compare Obama more to Bill Clinton because of his modest financial background and living the dying American Dream.
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:12 PM   #5
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The emancipation proclamation only "freed" the slaves in the Confederacy, not the Union states. I will say that he was a master politician.

I would say that they are common in how they are well-spoken and intellectual. I'd compare Obama more to Bill Clinton because of his modest financial background and living the dying American Dream.
Right, but I was referring to the symbolic nature Lincoln takes on in terms of racial advancement compared to Obama. But your point is well taken.

I don't think that Lincoln is the closest comparison to Obama, but there are certainly SOME similarities... It's not like we are comparing W. to John Adams (the first).

I'd agree with the Obama/Clinton comparison in some aspects. However, they are very different in many ways as well.
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Old 01-06-2009, 03:55 PM   #6
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Are you sure about that?

"The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.
I could never give assent to the long complicated statements
of Christian dogma."

- Abe Lincoln

I have a feeling he was "Christian," in the same way Obama is.
Uh, yeah. That was an attempt at being ironical with the mental illness blurb. Lincoln was as Obama is...to quote you...and it ain't good.

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coming from modest means
If Obama came from "modest" means then this country is in fantastic shape...which it ain't.
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Old 01-06-2009, 04:06 PM   #7
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Uh, yeah. That was an attempt at being ironical with the mental illness blurb. Lincoln was as Obama is...to quote you...and it ain't good.
Okay... What about the other 20 quotes a can pull up where Lincoln denounces Christianity?

Quote:
If Obama came from "modest" means then this country is in fantastic shape...which it ain't
"Modest means," not poverty.

Are you suggesting that Obama came from a privlidged background?
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Old 01-06-2009, 04:30 PM   #8
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Okay... What about the other 20 quotes a can pull up where Lincoln denounces Christianity?
Yeah, I know that. I made an attempt at being sarcastic saying well, at least Lincoln was a Christian and then adding he was mentally ill. Kind of crude humor but what I was saying is that both aren't Christians. I know that.

"Modest means," not poverty.

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Are you suggesting that Obama came from a privlidged background?
When examing percentiles and just looking at my own experiences..to quote Palin...you betcha.

It means nothing to me anyway but the media tries to perpetuate some great life struggle for him when he basically had an easy life. Again, this will simply go round and round CK if you debate me here. It's all part of perspective and standards based on someone's experiences. From what has been made available to us (and if it's true) I don't see anything too troubling for him. And any bumps he did have were easily overcome with a superior intellect/life skills he has anyway. The way he has lived his life and the decisions he has made...in my eyes...show me his life was easy. His poor moral character and background is symbolic of that.
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:08 PM   #9
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Well, I am only saying he doesn't come from the same background that most presidents have come from - elite families.

No, he wasn't raised in the ghettoes of Youngstown, but he wasn't raised in Orange County either.

"Poor moral character?"
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:19 PM   #10
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Well, I am only saying he doesn't come from the same background that most presidents have come from - elite families.

No, he wasn't raised in the ghettoes of Youngstown, but he wasn't raised in Orange County either.

"Poor moral character?"
Sure, poor moral character.

Anyone who fakes a religion, exploits long-standing wrongs to his/her benefit is of poor moral character.
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:19 PM   #11
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Sure, poor moral character.

Anyone who fakes a religion, exploits long-standing wrongs to his/her benefit is of poor moral character.
Well, depends on how you view things I guess.

As I pointed out to catman - I'd rather have a more enlightened man with better ideas in office who is a "faker" than someone who will continue down the same path of destruction.

I guess that's the relativism coming out of me - lesser of two evils idea.

I guess I think what a man does for other people is more important than what he says about himself.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:24 AM   #12
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Sure, poor moral character.

Anyone who fakes a religion, exploits long-standing wrongs to his/her benefit is of poor moral character.
Before I disagree with Buck I have to ask if his standards are that high? Not everyone lives a totally honorable life, if that is how you feel, and you aren't biased, you must hate almost everyone. Is that how it is?

Can you list a few well known people with good moral character?
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Old 01-07-2009, 02:37 PM   #13
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Anyone who fakes a religion, exploits long-standing wrongs to his/her benefit is of poor moral character.
Misuse of language. Language is inherently symbolic and words like moral character are a blatant misuse of it. Something like "moral character" exists outside the realms of the world, --note: this applies strictly to nominals/nominal phrases and verbs/verb phrases, not to words like conjunctions and determiners-- therefore it cannot be expressed through a symbolic language and, if anything, is a rather mystical term.

Of course, not trying to pick on Buckeye... language is misused far worse by people in the political lounge, but just happened to see this one.
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:51 PM   #14
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The actions one commits thru morality can vary due to life experience, knowledge and culture. Morality isn't set in stone, it's abstract.

SINCERITY is a must for something to be moral though. It's pretty much the standard of morality. If Iím sincerely pro-choice and support that causeÖIíve acted in a moral manner. If Iím sincerely pro-life and support that causeÖIíve acted in a moral manner. All based on my knowledge, experience and what I believe to be the best route.

When one blatantly ignores his own intelligence, life experience and culture as Obama has done by diminishing religion and by ďfaking itĒÖhe has acted immorally.

Remember, results donít indicate morality. Sincerity and attempts do. Any person who operates in a sincere manner at a solid clip (ok, so itís up to you) can be said to be moral. It has nothing to do with results or the intelligence of said person.

But to answer your question, I donít hate people because they fail or lack the opportunities, skill, and/or ability to accomplish something (cuz then Iíd be offender #1 on that list). I just canít stand it when folks who know better either take the easy way out or donít try...as Obama has done.
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:44 PM   #15
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So intentions matter more than results, at least when "morality" is being questioned?
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