Go Back   Sports Central Message Boards > Community Discussion > The Lounge > Politics & Religion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-20-2009, 02:01 PM   #1
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default Inauguration

What did you take from the speech?

The thing that struck me the most was his acknowledgement of "nonbelievers." I'm not a presidential historian, but he may be the first to recognize people without "faith" as equal members of society.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2009, 03:10 PM   #2
buckeyefan78
Happy Land
 
buckeyefan78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,864
buckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
What did you take from the speech?

The thing that struck me the most was his acknowledgement of "nonbelievers." I'm not a presidential historian, but he may be the first to recognize people without "faith" as equal members of society.
I thought the wordage was condescending and thoughtless. It was by far the most elitist and obtuse part of his speech.

We were forced to show the kids all the festivities all day long...even outside the history/civics classes (as I type this it's still on with them glued to the screen).

On a side note, under the "today's assignments" section on the board I wrote...

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

to see if anyone would notice.

Nobody did.



buckeyefan78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2009, 03:23 PM   #3
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 View Post
I thought the wordage was condescending and thoughtless. It was by far the most elitist and obtuse part of his speech.
Perhaps you can help me, being a historian and all.

Can you recall another president acknowledging "nonbelievers" in an inaugural address or otherwise?

Quote:
On a side note, under the "today's assignments" section on the board I wrote...

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

to see if anyone would notice.

Nobody did.

:lol:

Considering your views, a more appropriate lyric could not be found.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2009, 03:55 PM   #4
The Running Man
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 177
The Running Man is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
What did you take from the speech?

The thing that struck me the most was his acknowledgement of "nonbelievers." I'm not a presidential historian, but he may be the first to recognize people without "faith" as equal members of society.

That stood out to me as well. It's about time the atheists get recognized!
The Running Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2009, 04:04 PM   #5
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Running Man View Post
That stood out to me as well. It's about time the atheists get recognized!
Yeah, I'm trying to find any other presidential acknowledgement of "nonbelievers." No luck so far.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 01:35 PM   #6
buckeyefan78
Happy Land
 
buckeyefan78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,864
buckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Perhaps you can help me, being a historian and all.

Can you recall another president acknowledging "nonbelievers" in an inaugural address or otherwise?



:lol:

Considering your views, a more appropriate lyric could not be found.
Nonbelievers just sounds condescending or divisive IMO. Not that I'm the sensitive type...



It applies that they have been confronted with "the truth" and have dismissed it.

While I don't have the lying skills of the fool on the stage yesterday I'll rewrite it now to make it sound better...

We are a nation of many faiths and beliefs. The belief in Jesus Christ. The belief in Allah. The belief in science. The belief in progress. As a nation, I know our different beliefs and faiths can be used to unite us all in the name of freedom and equality.

See, and I ain't even a whore...at least on this matter.

:thumbup:
buckeyefan78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 01:43 PM   #7
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 View Post
Nonbelievers just sounds condescending or divisive IMO. Not that I'm the sensitive type...



It applies that they have been confronted with "the truth" and have dismissed it.

While I don't have the lying skills of the fool on the stage yesterday I'll rewrite it now to make it sound better...

We are a nation of many faiths and beliefs. The belief in Jesus Christ. The belief in Allah. The belief in science. The belief in progress. As a nation, I know our different beliefs and faiths can be used to unite us all in the name of freedom and equality.

See, and I ain't even a whore...at least on this matter.

:thumbup:
Aren't you of the opinion that Obama is a "nonbeliever" himself? Why would he speak condescendingly about something that he himself believes?

As for your revision, I don't think it makes the same point. Many people think that a believe in Christ and a belief in science are not mutually exclusive. Therefore, your revision wouldn't speak directly to people who deny the claims of religion.

I, for one, am happy that we are at least being brought into the conversation for once, even if the hypercritical crowd finds it to be "condescending."
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 01:52 PM   #8
buckeyefan78
Happy Land
 
buckeyefan78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,864
buckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Aren't you of the opinion that Obama is a "nonbeliever" himself? Why would he speak condescendingly about something that he himself believes?
He's technically a Christian...I guess. I don't keep track week to week what he believes in for political gain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
As for your revision, I don't think it makes the same point. Many people think that a believe in Christ and a belief in science are not mutually exclusive. Therefore, your revision wouldn't speak directly to people who deny the claims of religion.
Ah, you just proved the point by walking into the trap. Now my terms are offensive to the Christians because of a mutually exclusive clause...right? But when he says non-believers it implies that someone has been confronted with the truth and turned it away.

See CK, it was going to be offensive/inclusive/divisive to one group. He just picked the "nonbelievers" this time around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
I, for one, am happy that we are at least being brought into the conversation for once, even if the hypercritical crowd finds it to be "condescending."
Oh it doesn't bother me and like I said...I'm not the sensitive type. I'm just showing that by trying to be inclusive he actually made things more divided.

Again, no skin off my back. Anyone with an HONEST/SINCERE belief in ANYTHING got this guy beat in the faith department.
buckeyefan78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 01:59 PM   #9
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 View Post
He's technically a Christian...I guess. I don't keep track week to week what he believes in for political gain.
It's been pretty consistent I think - he's a "nonbeliever" who uses Christianity for political gain.

Quote:
Ah, you just proved the point by walking into the trap. Now my terms are offensive to the Christians because of a mutually exclusive clause...right? But when he says non-believers it implies that someone has been confronted with the truth and turned it away.

See CK, it was going to be offensive/inclusive/divisive to one group. He just picked the "nonbelievers" this time around.
No, I'm not saying that your revision is offensive to Christians, it just doesn't seem to acknowledge the existence of ahteist/agnostics.

I would listen to that and think, "well some Christians still believe in the value of science. He is speaking to people of different beliefs, but he isn't acknowledging those of us without religion."

If you think "nonbelievers" is condescending, then you are much more sensititve than you are trying to portray yourself.

Quote:
Oh it doesn't bother me and like I said...I'm not the sensitive type. I'm just showing that by trying to be inclusive he actually made things more divided.
Only in your mind, where every move he makes is the wrong one.

Quote:
Again, no skin off my back. Anyone with an HONEST/SINCERE belief in ANYTHING got this guy beat in the faith department.
He has honest and sincere beliefs.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 02:26 PM   #10
catman
Humble MLB Moderator
 
catman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 9,325
catman will become famous soon enough
Default

Yes he does Fresh. He said, during the campaign, that Rev. Wright helped him come to faith in Jesus Christ. I guess thats as consistant as any Democrat will ever become.
This said, I wish President Obama well. The country has a lot riding on his 4 years in office.
__________________
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans...." John Lennon

Catman
Rest in Peace, Buck. You were truly a giant among men.
catman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 07:37 PM   #11
buckeyefan78
Happy Land
 
buckeyefan78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,864
buckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
It's been pretty consistent I think - he's a "nonbeliever" who uses Christianity for political gain.
And again, as someone with a history degree (I ain't got one) from such a prestigious university don't you see anything inherently dangerous/wrong with that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
No, I'm not saying that your revision is offensive to Christians, it just doesn't seem to acknowledge the existence of ahteist/agnostics.
It's a chicken and an egg argument really. Look, the only way to appease many agnostics (the ones I know anyway) is to simply say "I don't know". When you use the term "nonbelievers" it automatically implies that everyone has been privy to "the belief" and then has either rejected it or embraced it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
If you think "nonbelievers" is condescending, then you are much more sensititve than you are trying to portray yourself.
First off, the earth is shaking after YOU implied that I'M too sensitive on this subject. We now have a new reference for the term "irony" in the dictionary.



Why it can be construed as condescending and obtuse begins and ends with my explanation:

When you say "nonbelievers" you've acknowledged either the chicken or the egg. If it's the chicken, the egg people are left out. If it's the egg, the chicken people are left out.

He TRIED to be inclusive in a moment (and what I would say a delusion) of grandeur. I understand what he was going for but without different wording (and I ain't as smart as rockstar so I gladly plead ignorance) it just comes off as hollow and condescending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Only in your mind, where every move he makes is the wrong one.
It's going to be a long four years for those with life experience/values with this guy in office CK. I understand when you root for power over progress it's easy to spin and deflect such criticisms but I'm not going to compromise for anything. And like I said before, if I ever did think of compromising, we ain't gonna start at the top. This guy got the goods. He's misued them badly over his lifetime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
He has honest and sincere beliefs.
And now the earth has officially spun off its axis.

:lol:
buckeyefan78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 09:19 PM   #12
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 View Post
And again, as someone with a history degree (I ain't got one) from such a prestigious university don't you see anything inherently dangerous/wrong with that?
Dangerous? Compared to what? An honest idiot?

I'll take "the immoral liar" as long as he has logic and rational thought over the "honest" idiot any day.

Yes, I'm assuming that you can't have one without the other. In a democracy full of stupid people, you pick your poison.

Quote:
It's a chicken and an egg argument really. Look, the only way to appease many agnostics (the ones I know anyway) is to simply say "I don't know". When you use the term "nonbelievers" it automatically implies that everyone has been privy to "the belief" and then has either rejected it or embraced
I'm not talking about "appeasing" anyone. I'm simply happy my kind was acknowledged for once.

Quote:
First off, the earth is shaking after YOU implied that I'M too sensitive on this subject. We now have a new reference for the term "irony" in the dictionary.
Yes sir.

Quote:
He TRIED to be inclusive in a moment (and what I would say a delusion) of grandeur. I understand what he was going for but without different wording (and I ain't as smart as rockstar so I gladly plead ignorance) it just comes off as hollow and condescending.
Condescending in your mind. He could say "hello" to you and you'd find it condescending.

Quote:
It's going to be a long four years for those with life experience/values with this guy in office CK. I understand when you root for power over progress it's easy to spin and deflect such criticisms but I'm not going to compromise for anything. And like I said before, if I ever did think of compromising, we ain't gonna start at the top. This guy got the goods. He's misued them badly over his lifetime.
It has nothing to do with compromise. I'm not asking you to fall in love with him over night. However it is clear that you will oppose everything he does, and every word he says, no matter what it is.

You have zero objectivity when it comes to Obama, or any other candidate from a major political party for that matter.

Results will mean nothing to you. He could bring the poverty rate down to 2% and you would say he did it for selfish reasons.

Quote:
And now the earth has officially spun off its axis.
Good argument

__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 06:48 PM   #13
Marc
Administrator
 
Marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Lake Wylie, SC
Posts: 26,434
Marc will become famous soon enough
Default

I have a warm, fuzzy feeling in my heart knowing Barack is in office. Just like DETMURDS, I'm sure.

Check out these INCREDIBLE pics of the inauguration: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/200...president.html
__________________
Marc James - SCMB Administrator | Sports Central Managing Editor & Founder
Teams: [Kentucky Wildcats] [Green Bay Packers] [Charlotte Hornets]
Follow on Twitter: @mnjames | @sportcentral
Marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 07:07 PM   #14
buckeyefan78
Happy Land
 
buckeyefan78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,864
buckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the rough
Default

My favorite picture from this past Tuesday...



If I knew how to work this dotcom machine a bit better I woulda put Obama's mug where Heston's is in the pic.
buckeyefan78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2009, 11:49 AM   #15
DETMURDS
Detroit Native!
 
DETMURDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: God's Green Earth
Posts: 1,703
DETMURDS has a little shameless behavior in the past
Default

"For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers.."


Obama wasted his breath for saying such a thing because that is not all we are a nation of! How dare him mention those groups without consideration for all the others. His statement is not true, and is a false statement.

For example he forgot the following just to mention a few;
mormon (LDS)
Native American religion
Buddhism
Sikhism
Baha'i Faith
and let's not forget DEVIL WORSHIP which is a recognized religion of the US government.
DETMURDS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Record Crowd Expected for Obama's Inauguration buckeyefan78 Politics & Religion 2 11-14-2008 02:35 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:40 AM.