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Old 10-23-2006, 10:51 AM   #1
doublee
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Default Bowden Under Fire at FSU

With the loss to BC on Saturday placing them in the cellar of the ACC for the first time some of the boosters are starting to clamor for Bowden to retire.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2635717

This not a huge surprise to me. Bowden has been exposed a bit the past few years since some of this top assistants have started taking head jobs elsewhere. It sounds like the jig may be up for Jeff as the Offensive Co-ordinator in Tallahassee. Something major needs to change in Tallahassee for the 'Noles to get back to the top. As it stands right now Tommy appears to be King of the Hill in the Bowden family.
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Old 10-23-2006, 02:39 PM   #2
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I agree Bowden does need to step down but, this year and last year that team has been devistated by injury. Jeff Bowden is an awful OC. As a Gator fan I hope he sticks around a few more years.:thumbup:
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Old 10-23-2006, 04:04 PM   #3
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This scenario sounds very familiar considering it's the same BS that has been going on at Penn State since 1995. Nepotism, horrific offensive game plans and a general decrease in talent. Face it, Florida State does not have the same amount of talent as they did 5-10 years ago.

Florida State isn't going to have to worry about getting to a bowl game, with Virginia and Western Michigan left, 6-6 is a certainty. But other than that it's a toss up other than Florida, a sure loss. Maryland should be a win but it's on the road. Wake Forest at home should be interesting. I'll say 8-4 but 7-5 is certainly a possibility.

Bowden is just like Paterno, he's untouchable. It's going to be up to him to decide when he wants to retire. And considering that JoePa has supposedly turned the corner at Penn State and put the team back on track to being a 9+ wins every year type of team, it won't be long until Paterno catches him. Right now Joe is only four wins (363-359) behind Bowden. Bowden has too much pride to be the first to step aside and let Paterno pass him. But just as Paterno broke Bryant's record first and then was passed by Bowden, Paterno might end up having the last laugh if FSU falls into the same funk PSU did up until last year.

It's like looking in a mirror. It's all so similiar to Penn State fans. Bowden called out the fans who expect them to win every game, every year and basically told them that ain't gonna happen. Paterno told PSU fans to lower their expectations. Overall decrease in talent. One day you're just losing with superior talent. The next you have no receivers to throw the ball to. Horrific offensive gameplanning headed by an idiot son. Always strong defense headed by a long time assistant.

Bowden has his work cut out for him. While Penn State is certainly an elite program, it never reached the level FSU did, finishing in the Top 4 for something like 13 consecutive seasons. And he also has two other major programs in the state with which he is always competing with for bragging rights. Penn State and Pitt aren't even close to being similiar programs and haven't played since 2000.
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Old 10-23-2006, 07:25 PM   #4
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Bowden is like Queen Elizabeth in many ways. He is a figurehead as his assistants do most of the work, from what I've heard. I wonder who lasts longer, Bowden or Paterno...
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Old 10-23-2006, 07:31 PM   #5
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I think you are pretty much on the money with that Marc. The offense has gone in the toilet since Richt left for UGA and the recruiting has gone down a bit since Amato left for NCSU. Amato is a very good recruiter he just not a very good tactician when it comes to game planning. But, FSU does not have the overall depth of talent that it enjoyed in the late 90s and early 2000's.

Mickey Andrews pretty much has autonomy over the defense and Bowden has little input into it. The only input he ever seems to have during the game is when he feels the need to call plays when the team is struggling offensively.

If I am not mistaken I think PSU started running into problems when some of its top assistants/recruiters started moving on to bigger and better things or just simply retired from coaching.
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Old 10-23-2006, 08:24 PM   #6
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The difference between Bowden and Paterno is that Bowden IS the program while Paterno is part of something much larger than himself. FSU has only been playing major college ball since 1955. PSU started in 1881. Penn State has much more infrastructure in place to support their program than FSU does after the old guys leave town.

FSU is much like Miami (and look at their problems when things go a little off the mark). Florida is a stable school part of a solid historic conference. Plus they are public and have actual alumni. It's no wonder Florida has surged ahead of the other two. They've capitalized on their instability.
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Old 10-23-2006, 08:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 View Post
Florida is a stable school part of a solid historic conference. Plus they are public and have actual alumni. It's no wonder Florida has surged ahead of the other two. They've capitalized on their instability.
This statement brings a tear to my eye Buck.

Alot of State's troubles this year are because of recruiting but, some of the blame has to go to the injury bug FSU has suffered though.
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Old 10-24-2006, 05:29 PM   #8
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This statement brings a tear to my eye Buck.

Alot of State's troubles this year are because of recruiting but, some of the blame has to go to the injury bug FSU has suffered though.
I don't know mush. The FSU program is clearly declining. I did a little homework here and found that all of the Big 3 are declining with Florida taking a little less of a hit...

FSU (1986-2000): 23 losses in 15 years with 2 National Championships
FSU (2001-2006): 23 losses in 5.5 years with 0 National Championships

Miami (2000-2002): 2 losses in 3 years with 1 National Championship
Miami (2002-2006): 10 losses in 3.5 years with 0 National Championships

Florida (1990-2001): 27 losses in 12 years with 1 National Championship
Florida (2002-2006): 19 losses in 4.5 years with 0 National Championships

Miami hasn't recovered from losing that Fiesta Bowl to OSU. FSU hasn't recovered from losing that NC game to Oklahoma. Florida seems to be rising again but still isn't at the level they were under Spurrier. I think they'll be ok...just can't say they are all the way back though.

BTW...Here are my Bucks in this little experiment ...

OSU (1999-2001): 15 losses in 3 years with 0 National Championships and 0 Big Ten Championships.

OSU (2002-2006): 8 losses in 4.5 years with 1 National Championship and 2 Big Ten Championships. Plus we might get both again this year.

Now this brings a tear to my eye.

Down with the Florida schools and up with the Buckeyes!

Last edited by buckeyefan78; 10-24-2006 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 10-24-2006, 05:51 PM   #9
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I'll buy that FSU and Miami in descension but it looks like Meyer has Florida ascending back up the ladder.

Sure FSU has had some injuries but the difference than in years past is that the guys who are not starting are just not as good. Bowden used to be able to get away with starting mostly juniors and seniors while the Freshmen and Sophs got experience in garbage time, but now, due to attrition and kids wanting to play right away he is inherently having to play more and more Freshmen and Sophomores than in the past. So, now when guys get injured he is forced into playing kids who are not ready or who would have likely been four/five year scout team players in years past.

The 'Noles also seem to have little to no clue what they are doing offensively. How is it with the talent they have at RB that FSU only handed the ball off 8 times? Weatherford had some rather disparaging comments after the game Saturday about how the team lacks identity and direction on offense.
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Old 10-24-2006, 06:10 PM   #10
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Yea...I'm pretty much with you there doublee except I need to see Meyer make a high-level bowl game and win there. Let's see him at least play in the SEC Championship. Still, having 2 down with 1 steady or starting to go up is enough to fill my heart with joy.

I'm not quite sure what you mean with the freshman and sophs wanting more action. Isn't that the case at every school? Ohio State starts 9 sophs and 1 freshman out of a possible 22. That's nearly half of all starters. Plus we're told at every turn that our talent can't compete with the Florida schools. Heck, my brother told me that Corso and Herbie both picked FSU over BC on Saturday due to that "Florida speed."
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Old 10-24-2006, 06:11 PM   #11
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I think Spurrier leaving and...Ron Zook taking over has an awful lot to do with UF's struggles. Maybe. Possibly.
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Old 10-24-2006, 07:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 View Post
The difference between Bowden and Paterno is that Bowden IS the program while Paterno is part of something much larger than himself. FSU has only been playing major college ball since 1955. PSU started in 1881. Penn State has much more infrastructure in place to support their program than FSU does after the old guys leave town.
Then you know nothing about Penn State football. Penn State football pre-Paterno was basically on the same level as schools like Virginia and Ole Miss today. Sure, they have some good years but for the most part it's average seasons and periods of success and along with periods of failure. Joe Paterno not only made Penn State football into a powerhouse but helped transform Penn State from a mostly agricultural school to one of the top public universities in the U.S. today. Paterno is not part of something much larger than himself. Joe Paterno might be larger than the university itself. Once he retires (or dies, I'm convinced he'll coach until his demise), Penn State is going to have a very tricky situation to deal with. They will not only have to replace the greatest coach the game has ever seen but also a man who has helped generate millions of dollars in donations and a man who is a larger than life figure in Pennsylvania.

I will agree that Penn State will probably have an easier time moving on post-Paterno than Florida State will post-Bowden. Florida State doesn't even have an in-house candidate (Andrews is pretty old too) that will likely be available. Penn State has Tom Bradley. But in addition to Bradley, Penn State has Greg Schiano (PSU grad, ex-assistant, has called PSU his "dream job" and finally has some solid head coaching credentials) who will probably be a favorite assuming he doesn't go down to Miami. And even though Kirk Ferentz has said he isn't going to leave Iowa, who knows whether it might occur to him that he's never going to win a MNC at Iowa. 2002 is probably about as good as it's going to get there.

The only thing I fear is Penn State goes with Bradley without conducting a national search, or even worse- making Jay Paterno head coach. While the latter is pretty much assured of not happening since it's widely assumed once Joe is gone, Jay will be out, I think Penn State could land a solid candidate like Schiano. Anyone who can recruit talent to and win at Rutgers could certainly carry on the tradition at Penn State.

Penn State is going to need to find their Gene Stallings a decade sooner than Alabama did. Penn State fans are forgiving of Paterno's losing seasons because of what he has accomplished. His replacement will have no room for error. The successor will have to step in and continue the success just as Frank Solich did at Nebraska post-Osborne.
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Old 10-25-2006, 06:31 PM   #13
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Then you know nothing about Penn State football.
Please refrain from making comments directed at me like this one in the future. Thank you.
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Old 10-25-2006, 08:01 PM   #14
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Please refrain from making comments directed at me like this one in the future. Thank you.
And this is any different then when you basically told me my opinion on the time change of the Michigan-Ohio State game is worth **** because I'm an "outsider"?

Paterno has more influence than probably even the most well connected PSU fans realize.

How many coaches can basically tell the AD and university president to screw off?
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