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Old 02-10-2006, 09:57 PM   #1
Marc
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Question Why are Muslims so upset over cartoon?





Details: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4684652.stm

I'm not Muslim and don't pretend to be an expert on Islam. However, I have seen and heard the widespread outrage a little cartoon in a Danish newspaper caused. Naive or not, I simply can't grasp why this is causing such anger. I mean people are dying because of these protests. Over what? A stupid cartoon? Conan O'Brien has made fun of Jesus on his show, for example, with a "NASCAR-driving Jesus" skit, but I laughed. The Daily Show features a mocking segment called "This Week in God," but do I set things on fire and stampede government buildings? What am I missing here? Is this just the socio-econonic divide between parts of the world?

First of all, who cares what a tiny Danish newspaper prints, and second of all, do these people know the meaning of humor? Even if it was meant as a religious slur or attack, which I doubt it was, I don't see why they can't just roll their eyes and move on. I know one thing: most all religions, including Islam, are peaceful and don't preach hate or violence. But these outlandish acts by protesting Muslims all over the world are exponentially worse than the whole stupid cartoon. Muslims are peaceful people and I respect their religion, but they're not making a good name for themselves. If they wonder why Christians look down at them, it's because actions like this.

Sorry, but this has been bothering me and I wanted to vent. Perhaps someone can shed some light on it. And to be honest, I'll tell you this: most of these demonstrations are taking place in poor third-world nations where people are not educated and are not connected like we are. They see others angry and outraged, and latch on. I think it's just snowballed because of that.
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Old 02-10-2006, 09:59 PM   #2
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It's not a cartoon at all. It's an illistration of the Prophet Mohammed. According to Islamic teachings, showing the face of the Prophet Mohammed is bad (I guess a sin in a way). In no way were these illustrations trying to make fun of the religion. Crazyness...
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Old 02-10-2006, 10:14 PM   #3
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Um, cartoon and illustration are like the same thing, and it's being called a cartoon by major news outlets. Does anyone have a picture of it? I just don't get it...
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Old 02-11-2006, 12:08 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
I know one thing: most all religions, including Islam, are peaceful and don't preach hate or violence.
Correct me if I'm wrong (anyone), because I don't pretend to be an expert on Islam, but doesn't their 'Holy Scripture' call for violence against 'infidels'?
Doesn't it say something about their own people being WORSE than infidels if they aren't violent against the infidels?
Recipe for disaster? hello?
Maybe I'm undereducated about Muslims, but from the little I've read- they're just a time bomb waiting to go off.... this incident being just a small tremor compared to what the whole unit is capable of.

To me, any religion that calls for violence against anyone that doesn't adhere to it, has to go. It does not promote freedom of religion and unity at the same time, and therefore ultimately doesn't work.
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Old 02-11-2006, 12:23 AM   #5
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Everyone wants to believe their religion is the best one out there and to make fun of any religion is not proper. No one likes to see their religious beliefs being ridiculed. Maybe the terrorists would like to discontinue their harrassment of Judaism?
Southpark has quite a lot of fun at the expense of Christianity and I, as a Christian, think its all in fun. A bit off color perhaps, but nothing to get really upset about.
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Old 02-11-2006, 09:49 AM   #6
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Exactly. Christians usually don't riot and kill over a Southpark episode. But unfortunantly, there are extremists in every religion (see Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed, Eric Rudolph aka Olympic Bomber, etc.)
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Old 02-11-2006, 12:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
Um, cartoon and illustration are like the same thing, and it's being called a cartoon by major news outlets. Does anyone have a picture of it? I just don't get it...
Here is a link of the cartoons/illustrations that were published:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/28.htm

I'm not trying to trivialize the situation or appear insensitive but IMO, to me, it appears no more offensive than this:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Musi....kanyewest.ap/
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Old 02-11-2006, 08:19 PM   #8
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The Muslims that are just protesting this, I'm fine with. The ones that take it for a violent turn just make the situation ugly.

I know there have been protests in Philadelphia because the Inquirer reprinted some of the cartoons. But, I don't believe they've turned violent. I don't agree with them, but I think they have the right to voice their displeasure with the cartoons. I'll never really understand what is so slanderous about the cartoons in their minds. (Except the one with Muhammed lighting a fuse on a bomb), but that's mainly because I don't really take offense to much of anything and possibly has to do with the lack of religion I personally hold.

A lot of Muslims do a lot to try to disassociate from terrorism and I think they see something like those cartoons that just sets it all back or shows what people might really have as an impression of Muslim people. It has to be frustrating.

I don't fault the paper that originally ran the cartoons, but I don't fault the Muslims who are in control of voicing their displeasure.

Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong (anyone), because I don't pretend to be an expert on Islam, but doesn't their 'Holy Scripture' call for violence against 'infidels'?
Doesn't it say something about their own people being WORSE than infidels if they aren't violent against the infidels?
Recipe for disaster? hello?
Maybe I'm undereducated about Muslims, but from the little I've read- they're just a time bomb waiting to go off.... this incident being just a small tremor compared to what the whole unit is capable of.

To me, any religion that calls for violence against anyone that doesn't adhere to it, has to go. It does not promote freedom of religion and unity at the same time, and therefore ultimately doesn't work.
I'd say the amount of Muslim's who interpret Islam in a manner that is about peace outnumbers the number that just wants to wage war. When there is a conflict like the one between Palestine and Israel, the side that gets noticed is most likely going to be the one with violent tendancies.

This is all off my having never read the Qur'an. I think there are a lot of passages in there that talk about Islam through conquest, and in that sense, you're right. But at the same time, I think certain Muslims can de-emphasize certain passages.

I think a lot of it is based on if your enemy is fighting you, to fight back, but to show mercy if he is not fighting you.

There's a lot of Muslims man, I think to say that overall the religion is about war over peace is a bit of a broad step. I don't really know what they teach, nor do I know about American religions, but I do know there are a lot of peaceful Muslims out there.
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Old 02-11-2006, 09:13 PM   #9
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The cartoons were reprinted all over Europe quite a bit before the violent protests started. If I didn't know any better, it's almost if we (broadly speaking, the Westerners) wanted to provoke them, and once they started violently protesting like we thought they might, congratulating ourselves for being pro-free speech and civilized.
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Old 02-11-2006, 11:16 PM   #10
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This thing continues to escalate...
How far will these guys go?
As many have already stated, the Christian majority (of which I am not a part of) is able to take anti-Christian jokes in stride, easily.... why aren't the Muslims able to live and let live?
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Old 02-12-2006, 01:20 AM   #11
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Let's try this for a bit, Shawn.

Europe, when you go beyond its general present-day secularity, is Christian. America is obviously Christian. American/European('specially Western European) politics, generally, govern the planet. The World Bank is a western construct. The UN is a western development. Most nations in Africa, when governed by a non-secular government, are governed by Western-supported Christian governments.
On the whole, at a world-wide level, Muslims are a politically marginalized people. In Europe, where race, religion and national origin may be an even bigger issue than they are here (especially in Denmark, where Muslims have become the target of questionable laws that cause them to feel like expressing their religious beliefs could make them targets for deportation), Muslims are so highly marginalized in a socio-economic sense that they burn cars on a nightly basis in Paris' suburbs (as we saw from Paris' riots last year).

Consider: a mostly secular nation populated by Muslims was invaded by a western nation not so long removed from its Imperial days and another nation whose economic strength is such that military invasion could be perceived as imperialism.
Consider: the two nations in the world, regardless of issues in East Asia, most often targeted by American State Dept and Defense Dept as being "terrorist havens" and being spoken of in ways very much similar to the way in which Iraq was spoken prior to its invasion are Muslim nations (Iran and Syria).
Consider: rightly or wrongly, Palestinians are a physically marginalized group, as well as socio-economically. Rightly or wrongly, they feel they are persecuted for their religious beliefs and history.

Christians, btw, usually do complain about things like South Park, The Simpson, The Family Guy, etc., but those Christians, in this country, are perceived as lunatic fringe.
Could be (and likely is) that the cartoon-related rioting is from Islam's lunatic fringe, but, in our nation, blacks had to protest and riot for many years before they started to gain political clout (which remains somewhat marginal, if significantly better than it was 40 years ago). Muslims, it could be said, see their situation similiarly worldwide, and especially in Europe.

Note: This isn't meant to excuse rioters/killers' behavior. I'm merely trying to provide a tiny bit of perspective for Shawn and others who don't understand the motivation for rioting.
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Old 02-12-2006, 02:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountaineerDave
Note: This isn't meant to excuse rioters/killers' behavior. I'm merely trying to provide a tiny bit of perspective for Shawn and others who don't understand the motivation for rioting.
Much appreciated, Dave.. it does make more sense now. Not that I condone the behavior, of course, but I can understand the motivation a bit more.
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Old 02-12-2006, 03:44 AM   #13
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Sorry, I'm not buying it. This is a very interesting read:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn...-steyn05.html#
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Old 02-12-2006, 03:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhuerbin88
It's not a cartoon at all. It's an illistration of the Prophet Mohammed. According to Islamic teachings, showing the face of the Prophet Mohammed is bad (I guess a sin in a way). In no way were these illustrations trying to make fun of the religion. Crazyness...

Joseph Goebbels must be laughing in his grave - the "Big Lie" claims yet another believer!

Only the extremist Wahabi sect of Islam (to which Osama bin Laden belongs) observes a blanket prohibition on depicting any human figures (from the Prophet Muhammad on down) in art; and Shiites, in fact, quite frequently make use of such images, including that of the Prophet Muhammad.

Did you know that there's a frieze of Muhammad on the wall of the Supreme Court building in Washington, D.C., and there has never been so much as a single voice raised in protest over it? Could it be that the 98 per cent of the world's Muslims who are not Wahabis just don't care?

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Old 02-12-2006, 04:36 PM   #15
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Ricky, I'll see your "we're under assault from Islamofascists" rubric and raise it with a "is knowledge and respect so hard for christians to show and have, too?" piece.

Somewhere, there is a middle. (BTW, Anthony, unless this Muslim mentioned in my link is Wahabi, I'm not sure your assertion on characterisation is correct, but I also have done no research on it, and don't recall my Muslim HS friend having a stance one way or the other.)

Somewhere, I have to believe, there is a middle ground that makes its point (I admit to bouts of density, but I'm still seeking the "point" of the cartoons that have been linked to above that Ricky's author suggests exists) without desecrating religious icons or nations' flags.

Difficult for a middle to be found, however, when both sides feel like there is a war on for global domination. And difficult for one side to just push aside what feels like belittement to them when the other side, if it were so moved, could easily (in a matter of speaking) eliminate the weaker side with a few well-placed armies or weapons of mass destruction.

On the other hand, westerners don't even have respect for one another. For proof, see anything that oozes from Ann Coulter's lips and every other word or so from Howard Dean's exceptionally timing-challenged mouth. (For the record, I usually agree with Dean, of course, but he does have an ability to speak wildly unfortunate terms. Coulter, in my view, however, is channeling the Amityville Horror 2005 demon. She has some work to do before I accuse her of channeling the devil, who inhabited the original Amityvillle Horror house--so superior to its 2005 revision that it's remarkably silly that they have the same name.)
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