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Old 06-26-2002, 01:30 PM   #1
Probie24
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Question Is Detroit a Dynasty?????

I don't know if I would call them a Dynasty but 3 Cups in 6 years is pretty damn close.



Don't think Red Wings are a dynasty? Think again
Scott Burnside
For The Sporting News


The truest measure of greatness is winning against all odds. Or is it winning when the odds are stacked heavily in your favor and only winning will suffice?

It's both.

Certainly, the Red Wings -- hockey's New York Yankees -- battered opponents this season as much with their $65 million payroll as their skating and defense. They bought up free agents Luc Robitaille and Brett Hull and traded for Chris Chelios and Dominik Hasek when few other teams could afford them.

Even senior Red Wings officials admit there is some truth to that theory. But it is only part of the story of a team that now has captured three Stanley Cups in six years and is knocking at the door to the hallowed hall of dynasties where the Canadiens, Oilers and Islanders dwell.

Here are 10 reasons -- one for every Stanley Cup winner on Scotty Bowman's resume -- why we say the Red Wings are a dynasty.

1. The future looks bright
They were mere glimpses -- Pavel Datsyuk deftly turning Sami Kapanen and Bret Hedican into a tangle of legs and sticks in overtime in Game 3; 6-5 Jiri Fischer bashing forwards and moving the puck with veteran calm; Boyd Devereaux feathering a pass to Hull for the winner in Game 4 -- but they were enough to know the future is good.

There is no better learning tool for a young player than playing alongside veterans such as Chelios, Steve Yzerman and Hasek, assistant G.M. Jim Nill says. Throw in Swedish prospect Henrik Zetterberg, and you wonder where the old fogies will fit in.
The play of the old fogies is another story.

"There's a big misconception about our team, and it's been that way for four years, that we're about to fall off the map," Nill says. "We've got too many guys playing at the peaks of their career (to do that)."

2. Speaking of old fogies
"We're over the hill. No question about it," Sergei Fedorov says, clearly joking.

Ha, ha. You didn't see the Hurricanes laughing when Igor Larionov, 41, became the oldest man ever to score in the Stanley Cup finals with his third-overtime winner in the pivotal third game.

Chelios, 40, was a Norris Trophy nominee. Yzerman, 37, led the team in playoff scoring on one leg. Age meant experience, which paid off when the Wings were under pressure.

"Age in today's game has zero to do with anything," offered Hull, who will be 38 when training camp rolls around. "The way teams play, you don't have to be swift of foot or superskilled anymore.

All you have to do is be very knowledgeable. I think we proved that."

3. Sticking together
"To be honest with you, I've got to say I didn't believe we were going to go past the first round again," Fedorov says. "It's very hard to do, get the glue together. The last three years we couldn't do much because something would happen. . . . I'm glad we glued together in a fast period of time because a year sometimes is not enough."

What Fedorov calls glue, others call chemistry.

Regardless, it was there in full force, and other big-spending teams -- the Rangers, Stars and Flyers -- became decidedly unglued.

4. Captain Courageous
Quite simply, Yzerman is one for the ages (all ages, apparently). Without his gritty performance in the first round, the Wings would have been an early playoff casualty. Yzerman set the tone in the dressing room for a group of marquee players not used to sharing the spotlight.

Some question his durability, especially given the offseason surgery that awaits him, but Yzerman remains one of the league's MVPs. One day he will leave a tremendous void, but that time is not now.

"Everyone who came in here knew what they were joining," Brendan Shanahan says. "When you have a captain like Steve Yzerman, you know where the leadership begins."

5. Playing keepaway
Yes, big Czech defenseman Jiri Slegr, acquired at the trade deadline, played only in the deciding game of the Stanley Cup finals. But Colorado's slow self-combustion in the Western Conference final was due in large part to a lack of defensive depth. Sure, the Avalanche brought in Darius Kasparaitis, but they also coveted Slegr, who has both size and offensive ability.
The Wings got him first, meaning, more important, the Avs did not. The art of the pre-emptive strike is difficult to master but is essential to the building of all great teams.

6. The vault
Money + Smarts = Success.

"It takes more than money to win in this league," Wings G.M. Ken Holland says. "If you get the chance over time to spend way more money than everybody else is, you've got a major advantage, but you still have to use that advantage and make it happen."

True, the Wings were among a handful of teams that could afford to pay Hasek. But they also had the assets to make the trade, just as they had assets that allowed them to acquire Chelios and Shanahan. Building a dynasty takes dollars and drafting.

"If you don't have the players, the money doesn't get it done for you," Holland says.

If Hasek retires, look for the Wings to point their wallet in Curtis Joseph's direction and increase the odds of keeping the dynasty alive.

Like the Yankees, the Red Wings are a magnet for both the talented and the expensive. The times might have changed, but the Red Wings have spent responsibly. Perhaps not coincidentally, they seem to be a championship magnet, too.

"You're not going to deny the Red Wings their place in history because the economics of the game are different," says Denis Potvin, a Hall of Famer and member of the Islanders dynasty of the early 1980s.

7. From humble beginnings
Hull calls them the team's foundation: Kris Draper, Darren McCarty and Kirk Maltby -- the Grind Line. The three are, in some ways, the team's conscience, a constant reminder that flash and style are nothing without substance. The Draper-McCarty-Maltby line tallied five points in the first two games of the finals and is part of a group of 10 players that has played a substantive role in all three Cup wins. With them all on the team, humility always is nearby.

8. How big are those shoes?
Both of Bowman's longtime associates, Barry Smith and Dave Lewis, will be on Holland's list of potential coaching replacements. Both have an intimate knowledge of the team and the mechanics of running it. Stability in strategy behind the bench is a good thing. In this case, familiarity breeds success.

9. Late Czech-out
At a time when many wondered if he were living as much on his reputation as his aging reflexes, Hasek allowed only seven goals in the five games of the final series and established an NHL record with six shutouts in the playoffs.

If he returns -- and the promise of another Cup run plus at least $8.5 million are powerful lures -- the Wings again are Cup favorites.

10. The competition
OK, so the Hurricanes weren't exactly the 1977 Canadiens. But the NHL landscape is dramatically more difficult to negotiate now than 20 years ago.

"The competition's a lot different," Bowman says. "I don't know how many real contenders there were in (the 1970s)."

Of the 16 teams that entered this year's playoff marathon, no
less than eight harbored legitimate hope for a run to the title. So when you factor in three championships in six years playing in a pretty tough group, you can include this Red Wing team as one of the greatest.

And if you don't agree, here's five reasons you might be right.
The wrong, er, other side

Think the Red Wings are pretenders to the dynasty club? In the interest of balance, we've got five reasons why you just might be right.

1. A touch of gray. The Wings dodged the age bullet. But offseason surgery looms for Steve Yzerman, and no one really expects Chris Chelios to maintain his Norris Trophy level of play. Will Brett Hull drive his teammates crazy?

2. Dom long gone. If Hasek stays in the Czech Republic, will the Wings upset their salary structure to pay Curtis Joseph the $9 million he wants? Who else fills that suddenly gaping hole in the Wings' crease? Byron Dafoe. Sorry. Mike Richter? Too brittle. Ed Belfour? Yikes. Without Hasek, a repeat is a long shot.

3. Is this a team or a corporate acquisition? Whatever the Wings want, they buy. But money doesn't always buy happiness. Isn't that right, Rangers? Stars?

4. The biggest void of all time. You don't just take the all-time winningest coach out of the equation and book a trip to the finals. Now that Scotty Bowman's gone, who will mind the ego store? In the ultra competitive Western Conference, the smallest drop off might be enough to upset the dynasty cart.

5. Stats, stats and more stats. Until the Red Wings win four Cups in a row as the Islanders and Canadiens did or five out of six as the Oilers did, they can't join the club. Could this collection of players match those great teams of the '70s and '80s? "I don't think so," says former Red Wings coach Jacques Demers. "It's not the kind of team that could win four Stanley Cups in a row."

Scott Burnside is a free-lance writer based in Toronto.
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Old 06-26-2002, 09:04 PM   #2
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The Detroit RedWings are not a dynasty team.
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Jacques Lemaire earns his 300th Career NHL Regular Season victory as the Wild defeated Florida 4 to 1.

Lemaires nephew, Manny Fernandez, turned aside 30 shots to earn the win. Bill Muckalt ended his 76 game scoring funk by netting 2 goals and 18 year old rookie Pierre-Marc Bouchard earns his 2nd NHL assist in as many games.
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Old 06-26-2002, 09:52 PM   #3
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There is no way you can call a team a dynasty until they have stringed several championships in a row. For all we know, they could be a one-year wonder considering their age and loss of Hasek.
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Old 06-26-2002, 10:47 PM   #4
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Look at the sucess year by year: of course they are.
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Old 06-26-2002, 11:35 PM   #5
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A dynasty team is a team that stands out above everyone else over the course of several years.

Detroit has managed two cups in 10 years, this is not a dynasty team. If they somehow managed to win the cup next year and the year after that and the year after that then I will raise them to dynasty status.

But they wont do that, they cant do that.

If I had to list teams that achieved dynasty status, here they are in no real particular order:


1. Montreal in the late 50's(4 cups in a row)
2. Montreal in the late 70's(4 cups in a row)
3. New York Islanders early 80's(4 cups in a row)


3.5 Edmonton Oilers in mid 80's(4 cups in 5 years)
4.0 Montreal in mid 60's(4 cups in 5 years)
4.5 Toronto in the early 60's(3 cups in a row, 4 in 6 years)
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Jacques Lemaire earns his 300th Career NHL Regular Season victory as the Wild defeated Florida 4 to 1.

Lemaires nephew, Manny Fernandez, turned aside 30 shots to earn the win. Bill Muckalt ended his 76 game scoring funk by netting 2 goals and 18 year old rookie Pierre-Marc Bouchard earns his 2nd NHL assist in as many games.
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Old 06-27-2002, 06:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian
Look at the sucess year by year: of course they are.
Well put, Wild Vikings.

Brian, you've got to be kidding. They had a great year, but they are far from being a dynasty. You have to have more than one good year - good, as in winning the Cup.
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Old 06-28-2002, 09:28 AM   #7
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It's actually 3 Cups in 6 years... not 2 in 10 or whatever someone else said. Plus, they've been like the best team in the Western Conference since like the 1993-1994 season. But I've said it before and I'll say it again: a Dynasty is not made in 6 years.... or 10 years or even 25 years. It's made over the longevity of a team. I picked up an SI book one day of the top teams of all time. They had a "team of the decades" section where 1990/2000's Detroit should be included in. They Dynasty section had the Yankees, Canadiens, and Celtics. That's it. Until Detroit wins 7 more Cups (1 more than Celtics/Maple Leafs.. for some reason I am thinking both have 16 championships but I forget for sure), they cannot be considered a dynasty.
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Old 08-02-2002, 02:11 PM   #8
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All i can see for the wings is downhill from here. Most of their good players are in their late 30's and getting ready to retire. They are just getting too old to win anymore. They may win one more cup but i doubt anymore after that for a couple of years.
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Old 08-02-2002, 03:11 PM   #9
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.....just signed Larionov to a 1-yr deal

Detroit will be a good team this season but I gaurantee no back-2-back titles this season.
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Old 08-02-2002, 07:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by SC-Lee
Detroit will be a good team this season but I gaurantee no back-2-back titles this season.
Ohhh really?
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Old 08-03-2002, 12:46 AM   #11
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Yup... Lee's Line has predicted the Cup winner in OCTOBER in back-2-back seasons and although everything is still comming in, the 'Line has downloaded this much info: Detroit won't win
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Old 08-03-2002, 02:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by SC-Lee
Yup... Lee's Line has predicted the Cup winner in OCTOBER in back-2-back seasons and although everything is still comming in, the 'Line has downloaded this much info: Detroit won't win
Well, re-consider at least...wouldnt want your streak to end
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