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Old 12-21-2006, 06:06 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by RavenPoe View Post
It depends on what you mean by "bible". There's plenty in the old testament. That would, however, be the Hebrew faith, not Christian. I defy you to find one thing that Jesus said that could be construed as it's ok to kill. He said exactly the opposite and refuted the old testament many times over.

If people actually believed what Jesus taught, Christianity would be a good thing.
Fair enough, like I said, I really didn't know. And I agree, if all Christians truly followed the message of Jesus, the world would be a better place. But unfortunately many Christians interpret Jesus's message in different ways and it can turn out hateful and violent. I forget the quote, but one of the abrotion clinic bombers quoted something from Jesus and intrepreted it to mean it was ok to kill abortion doctors.

But your point is well taken.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:06 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by RavenPoe View Post
It depends on what you mean by "bible". There's plenty in the old testament. That would, however, be the Hebrew faith, not Christian. I defy you to find one thing that Jesus said that could be construed as it's ok to kill. He said exactly the opposite and refuted the old testament many times over.

If people actually believed what Jesus taught, Christianity would be a good thing.
Read the book Revalation if you think Jesus wants peace only. It is murder that Jesus was against, not killing in general.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:07 PM   #198
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If we are fighting a War on Christmas we're getting our asses kicked. Went to the mall earlier and I couldn't help but notice Christmas stuff EVERYWHERE!!

...plus, Bill O'Reilly probably isn't the best ally in the "secular culture war on christmas and the moral majority" (or whatever it's called). Remember this little ditty from '04?


A female Fox News producer fired back at the TV star today, filing a lawsuit claiming that he subjected her to repeated instances of sexual harassment and spoke often, and explicitly, to her about phone sex, vibrators, threesomes, masturbation, the loss of his virginity, and sexual fantasies


Culture Warrior Bill, ladies and gents. Give him a hand... but wash it afterword.
The war on Christmas is a bogus statement. The crap you see at the malls and in stores isn't what Christmas is all about anyways. It's all just propaganda.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:11 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by chiefsfan27 View Post
Yet again you assume I view scientific data as the ultimate means of obtaining proof.

Looking at other things like bacteria evolving and assuming humans did the same is like a man who had lived in a cave his entire life seeing a bird for the first time and assuming that all humans could fly as well.
WHAT! No it is nothing like that. Did you even read my post? I said that seeing those things evolve ALONG WITH the many fossils and other data collected that suggest we evolved from lower species - makes a pretty strong argument. The caveman seeing the bird has no other data, let alone sophisticated thought-process and technology to analize the data.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:11 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by IntheNet View Post
  • Smearing the Christian faith with allegations of violence when it is a religion of peace.
  • Ignoring the violence within the Muslim religion and its practitioners of violence.
Have you heard of the Crusades? Various inquisitions over the years? More recently, how about the Salem witch trials, conducted by what I believe were puritanical Christians?

Think of it this way: it is man who is violent, and when men misinterpret their religion, it does not mean that religion itself is based in violence.

Don't condemn a religion because of the actions of a minority. I've seen estimates that there are between 1 and 2 billion muslims in the world. That's between 1/6 and 1/3 of the entire population. If they were all violent and, as I get the impression you believe, anti-American, 9/11 would be a drop in the bucket compared to the violence we would experience.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:13 PM   #201
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Misinformed, huh? Come on RavenPoe! Go tell a jewish family that survived the holocaust that the Nazi's weren't nuts they were jsut misinformed. Anybody who thinks they have the right to be violent or hurt someone over religion IS nuts and has no place in society. I feel very strongly about that.
Number of Jews killed by Hitler BECAUSE of religion = ZERO

Hitler was a sociopathic lunatic. His views weren't religious, they were insane. Religion does not equal insanity. Hitler was a bad example.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:15 PM   #202
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WHAT! No it is nothing like that. Did you even read my post? I said that seeing those things evolve ALONG WITH the many fossils and other data collected that suggest we evolved from lower species - makes a pretty strong argument. The caveman seeing the bird has no other data, let alone sophisticated thought-process and technology to analize the data.
The fossils you speak of are dated by the layers of earth they are found in. Wanna take a guess as to how the layers of earth are dated? By the fossils in them. That's not evidence, it's a secular baseless secular idea, that "scientists" conform to make it seem like evolution is true.

With the most sophisticated technolgy we had, how long did we "have evidence" that the earth was flat?
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:17 PM   #203
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Read the book Revalation if you think Jesus wants peace only. It is murder that Jesus was against, not killing in general.
St. John the divine wrote revelation, not Jesus. And by the way, it doesn't say anywhere in Revelation that it's ok for YOU to kill.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:21 PM   #204
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Number of Jews killed by Hitler BECAUSE of religion = ZERO

Hitler was a sociopathic lunatic. His views weren't religious, they were insane. Religion does not equal insanity. Hitler was a bad example.
What about these neo-Nazi white supremecist groups that are popping up all over america. Skinheads and what not. Not to mention in places like Germany, where I was stationed for two years, there is still many nazi and skinhead type groups, which will inflict violence on people who don't have the same views as them. My point is you should not defend anyone who thinks it is ok to resort to violence over their views or beliefs. They may be misinformed, but they are still nuts.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:24 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by chiefsfan27 View Post
The fossils you speak of are dated by the layers of earth they are found in. Wanna take a guess as to how the layers of earth are dated? By the fossils in them. That's not evidence, it's a secular baseless secular idea, that "scientists" conform to make it seem like evolution is true.

With the most sophisticated technolgy we had, how long did we "have evidence" that the earth was flat?
Ok chiefsfan...

I guess would just just assume that everything science has created is just like a caveman thinking he can fly. Wait a minuet, we can fly....I wonder how we learned how to do that, it wouldn't be science would it.

Seriously, you should stop taking medicine, stop using the computer, stop talking on the phone, everything you do, because it is no different than thinking the world is flat.

You are amazing how you refuse to believe facts. I am shocked, seriously.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:24 PM   #206
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What about these neo-Nazi white supremecist groups that are popping up all over america. Skinheads and what not. Not to mention in places like Germany, where I was stationed for two years, there is still many nazi and skinhead type groups, which will inflict violence on people who don't have the same views as them. My point is you should not defend anyone who thinks it is ok to resort to violence over their views or beliefs. They may be misinformed, but they are still nuts.
Without Christianity they would use some other platform to the exact same ends. These people aren't religious, they're hateful anti-socials. Jesus can't be blamed for every idiot whose ever worn a cross around their neck.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:26 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Some of my posts for you:

"I never insulted anyone for having religious beliefs. I insult people for wanting to put religion in every aspect of public life. "

I will quote myself from another board of long forgotten past...

Hate the belief, not the believer...

Figured it would fit in this case..and it is stolen straight from the Bible too...
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:27 PM   #208
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Without Christianity they would use some other platform to the exact same ends. These people aren't religious, they're hateful anti-socials. Jesus can't be blamed for every idiot whose ever worn a cross around their neck.
This is true. I do not blame Jesus. And if these people being labeled as religious extremists is the wrong title, then my bad. Anti-socials is a better term. But at least we know who I am talking about and I hope we can agree that these people are nuts. :thumbup:
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:28 PM   #209
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And poe, like I said before. It's not fair to say these people are misinformed. Look right now. chiefsfan has obviously been informed of all the things we have, but he has been taught for so long that religion can't be wrong to the point where he actually comes up with arguments against facts. These people are brainwashed by religion. It doesn't matter how factual the information you have is, if it disputes any part of the bible they will find a way to argue it. They create words, and make analogies that make no sense.

They are no misinformed, they ARE misguided.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:28 PM   #210
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:bash:

This is what I feel like after this thread. I still like all of you guys just to let you know.
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