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Old 09-12-2007, 07:05 PM   #16
buckeyefan78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suedon1970 View Post
True, but I believe the phone line runs both ways....
Ah, but when a program like...oh say...Ohio State...has this over a 12-year span for a home and home...

USC
Miami (Fl)
Texas
Washington
Washington State
California
Cincinnati
Syracuse
Virginia Tech
Oklahoma
Nebraska (almost there)

We give them the benefit of the doubt that their phone lines go out and don't care where they land. :thumbsup2: Cuz if you don't got the stomach for it...I doubt the call goes out to L.A. or Norman or Lincoln or Blacksburg.

And when we see that pattern with the other elite non-SEC programs (playing a host of teams anytime, anywhere except the SEC) logic tells us that we're makin' the calls...it's just that nobody is pickin' 'em up in SEC land.



In all fairness, there is a good deal of improvement in non-conference scheduling for the SEC but it is in the future. We saw the first few games of home and homes go down the last two years with Colorado goin' to Georgia, Ok State goin' to Georgia and K State goin' to Auburn.

I just can't wait until you guys have to go on the road to complete those...especially the ones outside the South.

And that doesn't excuse the fact that when Georgia plays at Arizona State next year it will be their first road game outside the South since 1965. It also doesn't excuse the fact that Auburn has only 1 all-time win outside the South (at K State in the late 80s). It also doesn't excuse the fact that Florida will host Hawaii and South Florida (3 times) over the next 8 years without making a return trip.

Just saying...
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Old 09-12-2007, 07:16 PM   #17
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And to turn things a little more back on track......

Future SEC vs. Big East battles...

2008 Auburn at WVU

2009 WVU at Auburn

2010 Vandy at UConn

2011 L'Ville at Georgia, UConn at Vandy

2012 Georgia at L'Ville

Plus the annual L'Ville vs. Kentucky tilt

*******************************************************

That's still not very many games...but like I said...the SEC's overall non-conf is lookin' much better. Auburn vs. WVU is kind of a shame cuz White and Slaton will be gone but so go the scheduling gods and their wicked ways.

Tennessee has a scary future plate.

UCLA
Oregon
Oklahoma
Nebraska
NC State

They've been the lone exception for weak non-conf scheduling in the SEC in the past so this makes sense.

I tell ya what...Georgia got some teams too.

Arizona State
Clemson
L'Ville
Oregon

Plus the Dawgs still have to finish up their home and home with OK State and Colorado.

Vast improvement there.

Still waiting for those games outside the South though (begins to drool).

:thumbsup2:
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Old 09-12-2007, 07:46 PM   #18
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Arkansas is doing a home and home with Texas in 08 and 09, so that helps as well...
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Old 09-12-2007, 07:47 PM   #19
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Arkansas is doing a home and home with Texas in 08 and 09, so that helps as well...
Yeah, old SWC battle there. You guys own 'em. :thumbup:

I think they beat you in Austin a few years back though.
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Old 09-12-2007, 09:09 PM   #20
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That they did. I dont remember what year it was, but they did beat us in our house. IMO its time for Mack to go, but im probably in the minority here, but thats another time and another topic
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:24 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachJ View Post
That they did. I dont remember what year it was, but they did beat us in our house. IMO its time for Mack to go, but im probably in the minority here, but thats another time and another topic
I don't understand why you would want Mack Brown gone. Didn't they just win a MNC in the not so distant past with him as the man in charge????
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:52 AM   #22
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I won't speak for coachJ, but Texas won the National Championship in 2005 because of Vince Young, not Mack Brown. 2005 also marked the only year that the Longhorns under Mack Brown have ever won the Big XII Conference Title.

Last year alone saw Texas get hammered at home by Ohio State, before they dropped back-to-back games to Kansas State (despite the injury to QB Colt McCoy, Texas never should have lost to the Wildcats in Manhattan) and Texas A&M with the Big XII Conference Title on the line.

I think the 2004 and 2005 seasons have bought Mack Brown a little bit of time, but this season will be very telling.

Texas played well last week against TCU, but that was a game they should have won. The Longhorns should have a very successful year this season, with the only questionable match-ups including the Red River Shootout in Dallas against Oklahoma, at home against Nebraska and on the road in College Station to close out the regular season against Texas A&M.

And each of those games are highly winnable.
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Old 09-13-2007, 01:52 PM   #23
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Exactly Toby. Vince Young won that championship for the Texas Longhorns, not Mack Brown. What has Mack done when he hasnt had Vince Young as a QB?? Lets not forget that with such a great athlete in waiting, while Vince was a redshirt freshman, Mack was sitting the splitting time with Chance Mock and Vince Young and you cant tell me that Mock and Young were even close to similar in the tools it takes to when football games. If Mack Brown wasnt so stupid, he might have been able to get 2 National Championships from that team, or at least played in them and not having to beg for votes to jump into the Rose Bowl to play Michigan in 04.

Lets not mention that, until Vince Young plays the Sooners, Mack Brown lost 5 or 6 in a row? Sorry but that doesnt cut it. The Sooners would have won last year if Rhett Bomar didnt get kicked out of OU, because lets face it, Thompson at QB was not great. This year, OU starts the win streak again im betting.

Mack Brown is a GREAT recruiter, and theres no doubting that, but as time has proven, talent will only get you so far (see LSU). The only time a GREAT recruiter can win championships is when an absolutely gifted athlete (Vince Young in this case) comes along and carries the team on their shoulders.

And as Toby said, the biggest matchups on the schedule this year are Oklahoma, Nebraska and the Aggies, and i bet you Mack Brown screws up one of those, if not 2. We should have been beat by the Cornhuskers last year, but somehow Michael Griffin comes up with the forced fumble on the 3rd or 4th down play to close out the game.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:40 PM   #24
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Each team has their own tradition and standards based on that tradition. So how does it go in Texas coachJ?

1. Beat Oklahoma
2. Beat A&M
3. Win Big 12
4. Win MNC

You order 'em or do whatever it takes...LOL. Then tell us where Mack has gone wrong. I can't recall the specific details of the Mackovic era but I know Brown has won many more overall games than him. How much of a role does the switch from the SWC to Big 12 play in this evaluation?

I only know and feel the importance of Ohio State and Michigan (plus the rest of the Big Ten)

1. Beat Michigan
2. Win the Big Ten (shares are acceptable)
3. Go to Rose Bowl (don't have to win it...just go)
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:13 PM   #25
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In Texas, im sure that everyone loves Mack Brown and is saying he is deserving of the extension he just recently received. To ME, the most important things are beating OU and the Aggies, and if you are able to do that each year, the Horns will more than likely be contending for the Big 12 Championship which would rank 3rd for me. The list buckeye provided is a perfect list for me, and would be great if at least the first 3 were accomplished every year because i know that they will not be able to compete for the national championship every year.

As for Mack Brown, without Vince Young, he is still unable to win the big games. Im going to start from when Mack was hired back in 1998. The main games im going to cover are the important wins and losses each year since hes been here.

1998:
9-3 overall, 6-2 in Big 12.
Losses to #6 UCLA, #5 Kansas State, and Texas Tech.
Beat OU, and the #6 ranked Aggies at the time.
Does not play in Big 12 Championship game.
Beats Miss. State in Cotton Bowl.
Good season, but would have been great if they get the Big 12 championship, but losses to Tech and K State demolished that dream.

1999:
9-5 overall, 6-2 in Big 12
Losses to NC State, #13 Kansas State, #24 Texas A&M, #3 Nebraska(Big 12 champ game), #24 Arkansas(Cotton Bowl).
Beat OU, thats it.
Disappointing season. All you do is beat OU, but lose 3 straight to end the season against the Aggies, Nebraska in the Big 12 championship, and Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl. Beating OU at this time wasnt very much of an accomplishment as they werent really the powerhouse they would soon become and Stoops was in his first year.

2000:
9-3 overall, 7-1 Big 12
Losses to Stanford, #10 OU, #8 Oregon.
Beat the #22 Aggies and thats all.
Bob Stoops begins his mastery of the Texas Longhorns by 63-14 in one of the, but not only, humiliating losses to OU. They win at home against the Aggies, but then lose to Oregon in the Holiday Bowl. Dont play for the Big 12 Championship because the Sooners take it en route to their National Championship. Only thing Mack did this year was beat the Aggies, get humiliated by the Sooners and then sit at home and watch your main rival win the National Championship.

2001:
11-2 overall, 7-1 Big 12.
Losses to #3 OU and #9 Colorado in Big 12 Championship.
They beat the Aggies again this year and #21 Washington in the Holiday Bowl.
Decent season. They lose to OU and contend for the Big 12 championship but if i remember correctly this was the year OK State upset OU and thats the only reason the Horns got in the Big 12 championship game. This was also the year of the Major Applewhite and Chris Simms debacle, which he starts Applewhite, we win the Big 12 Championship but instead starts Simms and lets him throw the game away until he finally decides to bring in Applewhite to an almost comeback. They did beat Washington in the Holiday Bowl.

2002:
11-2 overall, 6-2 Big 12.
Losses to #2 OU and Texas Tech.
Beat the Aggies and LSU in the Cotton Bowl.
Decent season by beating the Aggies and LSU in the Cotton Bowl, but we are still losing to OU, and not to mention getting beat by a Tech team that has never been a powerhouse but yet have beat the Horns twice since Mack has came.

2003:
10-3 overall, 7-1 Big 12.
Losses to Arkansas, #1 OU, #15 Wash. State in Holiday Bowl.
Beat the Aggies but thats it.
Decent season, but completely screws up the Chance Mock and Vince Young "battle." It finally takes Mock throwing the OU game away to finally start Vince Young for the rest of the season. Not to mention another humiliating loss to OU losing 65-13. Didnt compete for the Big 12 because we still cant beat OU, which is the 4th year in a row to lose to them.

2004:
11-1 overall, 7-1 Big 12.
Lost to #2 OU.
Beat the Aggies and Michigan in the Rose Bowl.
Decent season by beating the Aggies and Michigan in the Rose Bowl, but it marks the 5th straight year that we have been beat by OU and 3rd straight year not competing for the Big 12 championship. We shouldnt have been playing in the Rose Bowl that year either, but Mack Brown went begging for votes and they gave it to him to bump them into the Rose Bowl over Cal(i think).

2005:
Undefeated overall and in Big 12.
No losses.
Best season every for the Longhorns thanks to Vince Young, not Mack Brown. Vince Young FINALLY gets Mack Brown over the hump by beating OU for him, almost loses to the Aggies in College Station, and then dominates Colorado in the Big 12 Championship game, to move on to playing USC in the Rose Bowl for the National Championship in which Mack Brown was clearly outcoached, but Vince bailed him out once again. If not for this once in a lifetime athlete in Vince Young coming through, we probably continue with the losing streak to OU and still arent competing for the Big 12 championship.

2006:
10-3 overall, 6-2 Big 12.
Losses to #1 Ohio State, Kansas State, Texas A&M.
Beat OU.
Horrible season. The Horns beat OU, but only because they didnt have a decent QB. Lose to a Kansas State team they never should have lost to, and the Aggies and barely squeak by Iowa in the Alamo Bowl. They also should have been beaten by Nebraska as well, but Michael Griffin somehow causes a fumble and McCoy gets them in position for freshman Ryan Bailey to kick the game winning FG.

2007(to date):
2-0 overall, 0-0 Big 12.
The Horns come out completely unprepared and almost end up blowing the game against a mighty Arkansas State team. A hyped up TCU team comes into Austin and holds the Horns for the first half, until Texas finally shows up to play the game in the 2nd half and dominates TCU, which doesnt look as great now as it did then since Air Force was able to knock off TCU as well. Im predicting them to lose to OU and possibly the Aggies again this year since they have to go into College Station.

Overall, Mack Brown has had one great season in 2005 where Vince Young takes over and runs the show all the way to a National Championship. In all the other seasons, he has never been able to beat OU and the Aggies in the same season and has amounted to only 1 Big 12 championship, in which coincidentally comes in the same year Vince Young takes the Horns to the National Championship, coincidence? I doubt it. So all in all, Mack Browns record against OU is 4-5 and Texas A&M is 6-3.
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Old 09-15-2007, 01:10 PM   #26
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78-- I stopped reading to respond to the Auburn v WVU matchup notes: Yes, Slaton may not get to visit Auburn (and may not return for next year, yet to be seen), but that's okay, because that's Noel Devine's junior season, and if Thursday's performance is any inkling as to what's coming for WVU... well, he may very well be WVU's first Heisman winner.
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Old 09-16-2007, 12:07 AM   #27
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And UK takes out Louisville. Don't know if it's much of a shock. Louisville has nothing that resembles a defense, and it showed tonight.
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Old 09-16-2007, 12:51 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by MountaineerDave View Post
78-- I stopped reading to respond to the Auburn v WVU matchup notes: Yes, Slaton may not get to visit Auburn (and may not return for next year, yet to be seen), but that's okay, because that's Noel Devine's junior season, and if Thursday's performance is any inkling as to what's coming for WVU... well, he may very well be WVU's first Heisman winner.
Noel Devine, the kid is just nasty good.

Dave, who's lined up to take White's place when he leaves?
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Old 09-16-2007, 03:08 PM   #29
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In Texas, im sure that everyone loves Mack Brown and is saying he is deserving of the extension he just recently received. To ME, the most important things are beating OU and the Aggies, and if you are able to do that each year, the Horns will more than likely be contending for the Big 12 Championship which would rank 3rd for me. The list buckeye provided is a perfect list for me, and would be great if at least the first 3 were accomplished every year because i know that they will not be able to compete for the national championship every year.

As for Mack Brown, without Vince Young, he is still unable to win the big games. Im going to start from when Mack was hired back in 1998. The main games im going to cover are the important wins and losses each year since hes been here.

1998:
9-3 overall, 6-2 in Big 12.
Losses to #6 UCLA, #5 Kansas State, and Texas Tech.
Beat OU, and the #6 ranked Aggies at the time.
Does not play in Big 12 Championship game.
Beats Miss. State in Cotton Bowl.
Good season, but would have been great if they get the Big 12 championship, but losses to Tech and K State demolished that dream.

1999:
9-5 overall, 6-2 in Big 12
Losses to NC State, #13 Kansas State, #24 Texas A&M, #3 Nebraska(Big 12 champ game), #24 Arkansas(Cotton Bowl).
Beat OU, thats it.
Disappointing season. All you do is beat OU, but lose 3 straight to end the season against the Aggies, Nebraska in the Big 12 championship, and Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl. Beating OU at this time wasnt very much of an accomplishment as they werent really the powerhouse they would soon become and Stoops was in his first year.

2000:
9-3 overall, 7-1 Big 12
Losses to Stanford, #10 OU, #8 Oregon.
Beat the #22 Aggies and thats all.
Bob Stoops begins his mastery of the Texas Longhorns by 63-14 in one of the, but not only, humiliating losses to OU. They win at home against the Aggies, but then lose to Oregon in the Holiday Bowl. Dont play for the Big 12 Championship because the Sooners take it en route to their National Championship. Only thing Mack did this year was beat the Aggies, get humiliated by the Sooners and then sit at home and watch your main rival win the National Championship.

2001:
11-2 overall, 7-1 Big 12.
Losses to #3 OU and #9 Colorado in Big 12 Championship.
They beat the Aggies again this year and #21 Washington in the Holiday Bowl.
Decent season. They lose to OU and contend for the Big 12 championship but if i remember correctly this was the year OK State upset OU and thats the only reason the Horns got in the Big 12 championship game. This was also the year of the Major Applewhite and Chris Simms debacle, which he starts Applewhite, we win the Big 12 Championship but instead starts Simms and lets him throw the game away until he finally decides to bring in Applewhite to an almost comeback. They did beat Washington in the Holiday Bowl.

2002:
11-2 overall, 6-2 Big 12.
Losses to #2 OU and Texas Tech.
Beat the Aggies and LSU in the Cotton Bowl.
Decent season by beating the Aggies and LSU in the Cotton Bowl, but we are still losing to OU, and not to mention getting beat by a Tech team that has never been a powerhouse but yet have beat the Horns twice since Mack has came.

2003:
10-3 overall, 7-1 Big 12.
Losses to Arkansas, #1 OU, #15 Wash. State in Holiday Bowl.
Beat the Aggies but thats it.
Decent season, but completely screws up the Chance Mock and Vince Young "battle." It finally takes Mock throwing the OU game away to finally start Vince Young for the rest of the season. Not to mention another humiliating loss to OU losing 65-13. Didnt compete for the Big 12 because we still cant beat OU, which is the 4th year in a row to lose to them.

2004:
11-1 overall, 7-1 Big 12.
Lost to #2 OU.
Beat the Aggies and Michigan in the Rose Bowl.
Decent season by beating the Aggies and Michigan in the Rose Bowl, but it marks the 5th straight year that we have been beat by OU and 3rd straight year not competing for the Big 12 championship. We shouldnt have been playing in the Rose Bowl that year either, but Mack Brown went begging for votes and they gave it to him to bump them into the Rose Bowl over Cal(i think).

2005:
Undefeated overall and in Big 12.
No losses.
Best season every for the Longhorns thanks to Vince Young, not Mack Brown. Vince Young FINALLY gets Mack Brown over the hump by beating OU for him, almost loses to the Aggies in College Station, and then dominates Colorado in the Big 12 Championship game, to move on to playing USC in the Rose Bowl for the National Championship in which Mack Brown was clearly outcoached, but Vince bailed him out once again. If not for this once in a lifetime athlete in Vince Young coming through, we probably continue with the losing streak to OU and still arent competing for the Big 12 championship.

2006:
10-3 overall, 6-2 Big 12.
Losses to #1 Ohio State, Kansas State, Texas A&M.
Beat OU.
Horrible season. The Horns beat OU, but only because they didnt have a decent QB. Lose to a Kansas State team they never should have lost to, and the Aggies and barely squeak by Iowa in the Alamo Bowl. They also should have been beaten by Nebraska as well, but Michael Griffin somehow causes a fumble and McCoy gets them in position for freshman Ryan Bailey to kick the game winning FG.

2007(to date):
2-0 overall, 0-0 Big 12.
The Horns come out completely unprepared and almost end up blowing the game against a mighty Arkansas State team. A hyped up TCU team comes into Austin and holds the Horns for the first half, until Texas finally shows up to play the game in the 2nd half and dominates TCU, which doesnt look as great now as it did then since Air Force was able to knock off TCU as well. Im predicting them to lose to OU and possibly the Aggies again this year since they have to go into College Station.

Overall, Mack Brown has had one great season in 2005 where Vince Young takes over and runs the show all the way to a National Championship. In all the other seasons, he has never been able to beat OU and the Aggies in the same season and has amounted to only 1 Big 12 championship, in which coincidentally comes in the same year Vince Young takes the Horns to the National Championship, coincidence? I doubt it. So all in all, Mack Browns record against OU is 4-5 and Texas A&M is 6-3.
Interesting read coachJ.

Thanks.

Just tryin' to understand the situation.

A combined 10-8 mark against OU and A&M isn't anything to write home about. Agreed.
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Old 09-16-2007, 04:35 PM   #30
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I mean they are piling up the wins, which is ok i guess, but really who do they play each year? They play OU each year, which usually figures to be a loss. The Aggies are always playing the Horns tough as well. Aside from their one big OOC game, like Ohio State, TCU, UCLA, Arkansas, and others, each year, they really dont play anybody. Baylor, Texas Tech, OK State(most of the time), Kansas State(post-Snyder), over-hyped Missouri each year, they really dont play any teams that give them a huge challenge with the talent that they are bringing in. Yes they play Nebraska, but its not every year. Colorado hasnt been good recently and theres really nobody outside of 3 games a year that the Horns should lose, so his win totals arent very impressive to me.

Not to mention that even against these lower teams, Mack Brown continues to make stupid mistakes. In the game against UCF yesterday, he almost cost them the game. The Longhorns score a TD to go up by 11 points at 35-24, and Mack chooses to go for a 2 point conversion. Why? Your guess is as good as mine...If Mack chooses to kick the extra point, they go up by 12, and put the game in a 2 TD lead, instead he chooses to go for 2, and they fail to convert. UCF meanwhile drives down the field when they get the ball back and score a TD to make it 35-30, and go for 2 and make it to make it a 35-32 lead. If they get the ball back on the onside kick, Mack Brown looks like an idiot(still does in my book) for going for 2.
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