Go Back   Sports Central Message Boards > Community Discussion > The Lounge > Politics & Religion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-26-2008, 11:04 PM   #1
Tarkus
The Thread Stalker
 
Tarkus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In The Wind...
Posts: 11,856
Tarkus has a spectacular aura aboutTarkus has a spectacular aura aboutTarkus has a spectacular aura about
Default Uh ho...

The rich people are fighting again....

excerpt:

Some Clinton fund-raisers still simmering
Many major donors to her campaign skip convention or plan to leave early

DENVER - A significant number of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s top fund-raisers remain on the sidelines and unwilling to work for Senator Barack Obama, a nettlesome problem that appears to be contributing to the campaign’s failure to keep pace with ambitious fund-raising goals it set out for the general election.

Even as Mrs. Clinton prepared for her moment in the spotlight on Tuesday night, with a speech expected to offer a strong embrace of the nominee, the lingering rancor between the two sides appears to have intensified with the convention this week, with grousing from some Clinton fund-raisers about the way they are being treated here by the Obama campaign in terms of hotel rooms, convention credentials and the like.

Tensions were already running high going into convention week, particularly in the aftermath of disclosures that Mr. Obama did not vet Mrs. Clinton or ask her advice on his vice presidential pick.

Many major Clinton fund-raisers skipped the convention; others are leaving Wednesday, before Mr. Obama’s speech.

More broadly, a consensus appears to have emerged among many major Clinton donors that the Obama campaign did not do enough to enlist their support, according to interviews with more than a half-dozen Clinton fund-raisers.

“I’ve had more contact from the McCain campaign since the nomination than from the Obama campaign,” said Calvin Fayard, a New Orleans lawyer, major Clinton fund-raiser and longtime Democratic donor who is not in Denver this week.

Mr. Fayard said he was considering supporting Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, citing what he perceived as Mr. Obama’s inexperience.

After Mrs. Clinton suspended her campaign in June, the Clinton and Obama campaigns publicly vowed to work toward integrating Mrs. Clinton’s fund-raising apparatus with Mr. Obama’s.

But it appears that much of that effort has fallen short, said former Clinton supporters who have decided to begin raising money for Mr. Obama....

Indeed, a New York Times analysis of Federal Election Committee records found that Clinton donors contributed roughly $2 million to the Obama campaign in July, a similar amount to what they gave in June.

The amount is not insubstantial, but it appears to fall short of targets originally envisioned by Obama fund-raisers.

When Mr. Obama decided in June to bypass the $84 million in public financing for the general election, campaign officials calculated that to make it worth the additional time Mr. Obama would need to devote off the campaign trail to fund-raising, they needed to raise two to three times the $84 million.

In July, Mr. Obama and the Democratic National Committee took in about $77 million. That swamped the $53 million Mr. McCain and the Republican National Committee collected. But it was for a second straight month significantly off the pace Obama officials had set....

In June, when Mrs. Clinton suspended her campaign, Clinton and Obama officials estimated they might be able to collect $50 million to $75 million or more from Clinton donors. They appear to be nowhere near that.

And the prospects for the Obama campaign to wring more out of top Clinton fund-raisers who remain inactive or unenthusiastic appears to be diminishing. There was much initial wrangling between the two sides over how to best draw in former Clinton fund-raisers, with some arguing the Obama campaign should alter its fund-raising structure to offer parallel titles for top Clinton bundlers to their Obama counterparts.

But Obama officials, who take pride in having less heirarchy in its organization, resisted. In the end, they saw little need to change what was working, several top Clinton fund-raisers said.

“I’ve always advocated, in order to bring people in, you need to bring people into your leadership hierarchy,” Mr. Nemazee said. “The Obama world does not work that way. As a consequence, that works fine for how they motivate people. It does not work well in terms of how you motivate the Clinton people.”

Another sore point remains Clinton fund-raisers’ contentions that Mr. Obama has not done enough to help Mrs. Clinton retire her debt. The analysis by The Times found that Obama donors gave $300,000 to Mrs. Clinton in July and $135,000 in June.

Perceived snubs leading up to the convention have not helped. Only a handful of Clinton donors got rooms at the coveted Ritz Carlton, where the biggest Obama fund-raisers are staying.

The Times’s analysis of campaign finance records found fewer than 50 out of the more than 300 “Hillraisers” — who have bundled more than $100,000 for Mrs. Clinton — contributed to the Obama campaign in July, up from about 10 the month before.

Just over 70 Hillraisers have contributed to Mr. Obama, meaning the vast majority of Hillraisers appear to have not.

“Coming into the convention, things aren’t as good as we all would have hoped for,” said Beth Dozoretz, a former finance chairwoman for the Democratic party and Hillraiser who said she is planning to do some women’s events for the Obama campaign in the fall but decided to take the summer off. “We remain hopeful that it will improve significantly after this week.”
****************************************


At least we know that their main goal is the people. Hopefully they can set their hurt feelings aside so they can get back to influencing the public & buying this election the good old fashioned way. :thumbup:
__________________
Tarkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 10:22 AM   #2
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Hillary supporters need to grow up.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 11:08 AM   #3
HibachiDG
Sports Virtuoso
 
HibachiDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,258
HibachiDG is on a distinguished road
Default

If you're talking the Hillary supporters that are saying stuff like "Hillary lost, I'm voting for McCain", that seems a bit silly, or they're taking a huge leap of faith that McCain will be back to thinking on his own McCain of 2000.

But, this article seemed to be about people donating money.

I mean, planning on voting for Hillary for President, but then voting for whoever is the democratic nomination is one thing, but planning on giving money to Hillary for President and giving that same money to whoever is the democratic nomination is a much different situation. so, they should just grow up and throw their cash at Barack's campaign?
HibachiDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 11:14 AM   #4
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HibachiDG View Post
If you're talking the Hillary supporters that are saying stuff like "Hillary lost, I'm voting for McCain", that seems a bit silly, or they're taking a huge leap of faith that McCain will be back to thinking on his own McCain of 2000.

But, this article seemed to be about people donating money.

I mean, planning on voting for Hillary for President, but then voting for whoever is the democratic nomination is one thing, but planning on giving money to Hillary for President and giving that same money to whoever is the democratic nomination is a much different situation. so, they should just grow up and throw their cash at Barack's campaign?
Well, I have to be careful how I word this, or else buck and tark will let me have it

It just seems to me that many supporters (financial and voters) are simply bitter.

Of course there are some who are worried about Obama's experience. Of course there are some that have other problems with Obama.

Nevertheless, donating money to Hillary was probably done with belief in what she stands for. Obama stands for the same things.

I think there are a lot of loyal Clintonites. A lot of these people assumed she had a right to the nomination, and they are bitter about Obama winning.

In other words, it's not about advancing the nation, or doing what you believe in, but instead, a selfish bitterness.

For those people, they need to grow.

To be clear, I'm not talking about all Hillary supporters.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 12:42 PM   #5
HibachiDG
Sports Virtuoso
 
HibachiDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,258
HibachiDG is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Nevertheless, donating money to Hillary was probably done with belief in what she stands for. Obama stands for the same things.
With Clinton, I think you had a lot of people that supported that name rather than the things she stands for. Second, even if they stand for the same things, it's not like there aren't differences. I find it pretty easy for someone to go "well, if I don't support Obama, and he loses, then Hillary will have a shot in 4 years."

For instance, one of the things I think is most important, universal healthcare. Is it important enough to get right where I'd want for Obama to lose and get Hillary in 4 years later? Absolutely. If you could tell me right now don't support Obama any if he loses then Hillary is guaranteed to win in 4 years, I would take McCain for 4 years easy.

The problem that leads me to voting for Obama is that it's not guaranteed Hillary would win in 4 years. So, because it's not guaranteed I vote for Obama and if he wins cross my fingers that he won't mess up universal healthcare as much as I think he will right now.

But, I can see where people are coming from. A lot of people voted based on something like universal healthcare in the primary and I don't think Obama has done anything to bring those people over. That's not bitter, that's a real policy difference that is drastic.
HibachiDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 12:47 PM   #6
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
But, I can see where people are coming from. A lot of people voted based on something like universal healthcare in the primary and I don't think Obama has done anything to bring those people over. That's not bitter, that's a real policy difference that is drastic.
Not really... Have you looked at their health care proposals? Obama basically copied Hillary's, with a few minor changes.

The only real difference is that Obama would allow those who can afford it, to purchase alternative (private) policies.

Moreover, if Obama is elected, I have no doubt that he will rely heavily on Hillary's input, especially when it comes to health care.

In fact, I would bet that he would offer her a cabinet position, and let her take the lead on health care.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 01:10 PM   #7
HibachiDG
Sports Virtuoso
 
HibachiDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,258
HibachiDG is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Obama basically copied Hillary's, with a few minor changes.
If you mean he copied what Hillary wanted in 1993, I'd probably agree with this statement. If he's changed his healthcare plan since April/May I missed it and will blame that on the bar exam. Has Obama stopped talking up single payer? If you could compare Obama's plan to one country which country would it be?

Quote:
In fact, I would bet that he would offer her a cabinet position, and let her take the lead on health care.
Yeah, but ultimately, you're not making these decisions, so I mean, waiting until Obama says something along these lines, even if it's just a hint seems reasonable. This would certainly go a long way, but I think Obama's ego thus far has shied away from doing anything to set this up.
HibachiDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 01:20 PM   #8
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
If you mean he copied what Hillary wanted in 1993, I'd probably agree with this statement. If he's changed his healthcare plan since April/May I missed it and will blame that on the bar exam. Has Obama stopped talking up single payer? If you could compare Obama's plan to one country which country would it be?
Both plans require that private insurers offer policies to everyone, regardless of medical history. Both also allow people to buy into government-offered insurance instead. And both plans seek to make insurance affordable to lower-income Americans.

When compared to Hillary Clinton, the biggest difference is that Obama does not mandate that all adults have health insurance and Clinton does.

Obama's plan is not, and never has been, a single payer plan.

He has been "open to the idea," but never fully embraced it.

As far as which country his plan is most comparable to, I'm not sure. I don't think it is really like any country, but I don't know very much about other countries' health care systems.

I do know, that it isn't a single-payer plan.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 01:41 PM   #9
HibachiDG
Sports Virtuoso
 
HibachiDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,258
HibachiDG is on a distinguished road
Default

Right, but Obama has always said that he thinks a single payer healthcare system would be the best and his preference, but based on the current setup, couldn't be implemented. I don't think he has backed off of this. When it comes to getting a plan through Congress, the stuff they have on paper and tout in the campaigns is not going to be the be all end all. When he still says statements like single payer is going to be the best, it just tells me that he doesn't get it as much as I'd want a President to. That got tried 15 years ago, did not work here, it's not going to work here because it's flawed to the point where it's not just conservatives that dislike the concept.

It's all well and good that his current plan ignores the words single-payer, but it's still what Obama believes in and that is going to affect the way he would adjust any plan in moving forward.
HibachiDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 01:44 PM   #10
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HibachiDG View Post
Right, but Obama has always said that he thinks a single payer healthcare system would be the best and his preference, but based on the current setup, couldn't be implemented. I don't think he has backed off of this. When it comes to getting a plan through Congress, the stuff they have on paper and tout in the campaigns is not going to be the be all end all. When he still says statements like single payer is going to be the best, it just tells me that he doesn't get it as much as I'd want a President to. That got tried 15 years ago, did not work here, it's not going to work here because it's flawed to the point where it's not just conservatives that dislike the concept.

It's all well and good that his current plan ignores the words single-payer, but it's still what Obama believes in and that is going to affect the way he would adjust any plan in moving forward.

I think Obama is saying exactly what you are saying here. He has said, "if I could start from scratch," single payer would be his preference.

The fact of the matter is, he realized that it is impossible to impliment in the current system.

It is much like my views on socialism. It is the ideal system, but impossible to impliment.

He is a pragmatist. He is not stupid. He knows what happened to Hillary's original plan.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 05:45 PM   #11
HibachiDG
Sports Virtuoso
 
HibachiDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,258
HibachiDG is on a distinguished road
Default

That's a good point, but socialism is something much broader. Unless from scratch Obama's changing everything, not just healthcare. But, if you're still fitting healthcare into the systems we've got currently, single payer is not going to work.
HibachiDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 05:49 PM   #12
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HibachiDG View Post
That's a good point, but socialism is something much broader. Unless from scratch Obama's changing everything, not just healthcare. But, if you're still fitting healthcare into the systems we've got currently, single payer is not going to work.
Obama agrees with you on that point :thumbup:
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 06:20 PM   #13
HibachiDG
Sports Virtuoso
 
HibachiDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,258
HibachiDG is on a distinguished road
Default

eh, I don't think that he does. It's a matter of interpreting what he's said and if we disagree on the interpretation, fine.

Quote:
But Obama repeated that he rejects an immediate shift to a single-payer system. “Given that a lot of people work for insurance companies, a lot of people work for HMOs. You’ve got a whole system of institutions that have been set up,” he said at a roundtable discussion with women Monday morning after a voter asked, “Why not single payer?”
To me, that says Obama still thinks single payer would fit into our current economic system if you took out the infrastructure like insurance companies, and people working for HMOs. So, I don't think Obama agrees that single payer could work within our current economic system. I think he thinks it would still make sense despite a lot of the criticisms that we've seen developed for two decades now.
HibachiDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 06:37 PM   #14
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HibachiDG View Post
eh, I don't think that he does. It's a matter of interpreting what he's said and if we disagree on the interpretation, fine.

To me, that says Obama still thinks single payer would fit into our current economic system if you took out the infrastructure like insurance companies, and people working for HMOs. So, I don't think Obama agrees that single payer could work within our current economic system. I think he thinks it would still make sense despite a lot of the criticisms that we've seen developed for two decades now.
Come on now... I think if you re-read that post you will find the contradiction in your own words.

To me, that says Obama still thinks single payer would fit into our current economic system if you took out the infrastructure like insurance companies, and people working for HMOs.

then you say:


I don't think Obama agrees that single payer could work within our current economic system.


Yes, Obama thinks single payer would work IF you removed huge portions of our health care system.

That is not going to happen. Obama only supports single payer in a hypothetical world. In the real world, he agrees with you.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2008, 06:45 PM   #15
HibachiDG
Sports Virtuoso
 
HibachiDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,258
HibachiDG is on a distinguished road
Default

The second line from what I wrote should be "I don't think Obama agrees that single payer couldn't work within our current economic system"

Anyway,

Quote:
Yes, Obama thinks single payer would work IF you removed huge portions of our health care system.

That is not going to happen. Obama only supports single payer in a hypothetical world. In the real world, he agrees with you.
My point is that you have to overhaul the entire economic system and not just the healthcare system. In a hypothetical world, if you removed the healthcare infrastructure and replaced it with single payer, I don't think it would work without significant shift in economic direction of the country.

If you interpret Obama's statements as, from scratch, this country would be more socialist than capitalist, then I think it would be more reasonable for a single payer system to work in that hypothetical world.
HibachiDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Santas warned 'ho ho ho' offensive to women buckeyefan78 The Lounge 26 11-19-2007 07:52 PM
Uh Oh ... Cal's REALLY Done It Now! Anthony College Football 3 11-03-2007 11:09 AM
Week, uh, is it 8? thoughts HibachiDG College Football 17 10-22-2006 02:35 PM
What P2P system do....uh, would you use? Dublin Mike The Lounge 15 04-22-2005 08:00 PM
NCAA to Southern Cal's M Williams: Uh, no. MountaineerDave College Football 12 08-29-2004 09:11 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:50 AM.