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Old 04-21-2004, 06:56 PM   #31
RaviPachai18
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Noon, it seems as though we are starting to meet on a common ground. This whole Tiger issue is one that I follow quite closely. I have asked myself the same question, is he in a slump? Why isn't he the same Tiger that he was a few years ago? But I just don't feel (personally) that it would be fair for me to jump to that conclusion so quickly. He still manages to pull off some amazing things, just when you think he's out of it, he makes some sort of comeback. It doesn't always end in him stealing the tournament, but he keeps his name up there.

You can believe he is in a slump and I won't, but that's not the point because I'm not saying you're right or wrong, I will just give you my reasons for believing he's not and you will give me yours. The thing that bothers me about this thread is that Marc, who isn't that much of an avid golf fan, poses the question with rolling eyes making it seem like you'd be stupid to believe he's not in a slump. It's obviously a subject that's up for debate!

One of the reasons I've considered that Tiger isn't the same player that he was several years ago is that he just doesn't have the same passion that he use to. A few years ago, you could see it in his eyes, in everything he did and said, he was driven to win. I believe he still is, just not as much. Here's a guy who make 90 million dollars a year, has just got engaged and has broken countless records, I just don't know if the thrill is there for him like it used to be. So, I'm not totally surprised that he has toned himself down a little. I think he also saw that if he kept pushing himself the way he use to that he would burn out way before he wanted. So, for me, it would be fair to say that he may be headed for a slump ... but that's another discussion.
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:17 AM   #32
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Hmmmm...I think he still has the passion; he doesn't seem listless or uninterested in interviews, and he still shows plenty of emotion when he hits a bad shot (by the way, am I the only one who has noticed the Tiger has become one of most hot-tempered players in golf? Every time he hits a bad one, he goes, "God!" and starts pounding his club into the ground.)

My definition of slump, your definition of slump, it's all subjective, etc....well, not entirely. What is the dictionary's definition of slump?

"An extended period of poor performance, especially in a sport or competitive activity: a slump in a batting average. "

Well, by that definition, a slump is out of the question for Tiger, because he isn't playing POORLY and any discussion of the issue, to be proper, has to change to "slumpforhim."

I looked around a bit on pga.com without success, but I would love to see the composite scoring average of Tiger in 2001 vs. now, and ALSO the aggregate scoring average of all PGA pros of 2001 vs. now. This is because I don't think the rest of the field HAS come up to Tiger. I think scoring averages have gone up. For everyone.
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:28 AM   #33
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It was just some ideas that I put out there Kevin...I don't know for sure, I don't think any of us can. I just remember the days when Tiger would be banging his clubs, swearing and making off (much the same as he does now or more). The difference between then and now is that in the past Tiger would hit up the range immediately after playing, skipping over media coverage in order to practice his game.

If you watch video coverage of him then and now, I'm almost positive you will see quite a difference in the way he handles himself. He has toned it down quite a bit and seems to fit more in line now with the Pre-Tiger PGA Tour. I don't know really, just some general observations that crossed my mind.

The guy still has passion, definitely. I just don't think he has as much as he use to. That's not to say that it won't come back, it might. I think he might just be a little full of his accomplishments for the time being, but he'll get hungry again.
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:56 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by RaviPachai18
I don't agree with Marc's comments and I think Lee's are warranted because Marc's post has a very condescending tone towards it. I think Marc also lacks some understanding in golf and should read Lee's post carefully. According to Marc anyone but the 4 major winners or big tournament winners are in a slump...com'on, no sport works like that, why is golf any different?
I don't really appreciate having words put into my mouth, or at least the wrong assumptions being made. Tiger Woods is not an average golfer, he set a higher standard and is not living up to it, therefore he is struggling. Because Tiger has gone a very long time in his standards in winning a major, I believe he is in a slump. You simply cannot have universal standards for all participants.

I did not say you have to win majors or you are slumping. But as Ryan said, and I am glad he agrees with me, this is Tiger f'n Woods and he is held to a higher standard, just as Barry Bonds, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, etc. are/were.

On the contrary, Ravi and Lee are two of the only people I know or have seen who argue Tiger isn't slumping. My opinion is not one in the minority, but I'm not using that as means to justify my argument. I am entitled to my opinion here regardless if I am an avid golf fan or someone who casually follows it.
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Old 04-22-2004, 11:22 PM   #35
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A golf career is a marathon, not a sprint. Tiger came out of the gates with such dominance, we've all come to expect more of the same. While I still consider him the best player, I do think he's struggling. It's part of the game. It's inevitable for players to have a lull in their game thru the years, whatever the reason.

The big difference to me is when Tiger struggles, you don't get the feeling before the tournament that he's out of it. He's capable at any time of winning.

And in my view, as scattered as it might be, I believe Tigers success, while at the beginning disheartened most who couldn't overcome his talent, has now inspired alot to focus more, practice more, get in better shape, etc. I don't think Michelson decided to start working out on his own but saw that Tigers being in "athlete" condition rather than "golfer" condition may make a difference on the back nine. I believe his better condition not only helped his game but his confidence.

I believe Tiger has been responsible for this change in the tour attitude but inadvertently increased his competition. I see better, smarter golf being played on the average nowadays. No matter if he's in a slump or not, Tiger's still the measuring stick that all golfers use, even the ones who don't like him. lol JMHO
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Old 04-23-2004, 01:58 AM   #36
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Marc, your post is nothing other than, "I will say what I want." You have chosen to ignore all the comments regarding the statistics thrown at you about Tiger Woods. If that's your choice, then so be it but I believe you are ignoring vital statistics about Tiger Woods that speak for themselves.

As for putting words in your mouth, I did no such thing. Re-read your post and you tell me what your intentions were with the way you asked the question using the rolling eyes image? If you haven't noticed, Kevin also agrees that Tiger is not in a slump. And he also made the very valid point that equates to you putting Jack Nicklaus in a slump for years upon years.

If you believe you're in a majority and you feel comfort in that, then so be it ... it doesn't make you right. There's no point in turning this into a "you said", "I said" because the stats are right there, just read over the posts. Show me a player that can pull those off, and I'll show you a player that's not in a slump.
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Old 04-23-2004, 08:23 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marc
On the contrary, Ravi and Lee are two of the only people I know or have seen who argue Tiger isn't slumping.
How odd that we are the only two people around here who actually watch and play golf. How very, very strange... watch The Golf Channel or something, I'm sure you will find that everyone there agrees that Eldrick is only a few putts away from being on fire again. Anyway, the fact that "EVERYONE" else says he is doesn't mean he is. It's something that is impossible to define and this is my opinion. I am giving you the stats here to prove my point. Give me some stats that he IS in the slump and maybe you will have a case. I dunno... top10s and dozens of top20s are quite good if you ask me, on regular AND in major tournaments. Mickelson went 10 years without ever winning a major, was he in a slump the past 3 or 4 years? No, he finished 3rd for 3 straight years at the Masters and with good finishes in the other majors! The greatest golfer ever, Jack Nicklaus, went thru way longer major-less streaks than the one Woods is on right no so everyone should settle down. Woods is the face of golf which is trying to become a mainstream sport and people who are new to the game expect him to perform like he did in 2000 and 2001 every single tournament. It doesn't happen.

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Old 04-23-2004, 01:40 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by SC-Lee
How odd that we are the only two people around here who actually watch and play golf. How very, very strange...

Uh, I play golf and have more than a passing interest in the sport.

But I don't agree with you, so I probably just don't understand it.
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Old 04-23-2004, 10:40 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by SC-Lee
How odd that we are the only two people around here who actually watch and play golf.
Like Noon, I read that and immediately huffed and took umbrage....especially since I'm beating Lee by a decent margin in our fantasy golf league.
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Old 04-23-2004, 10:53 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Noon
But I don't agree with you, so I probably just don't understand it.
No one said that. But in the case of Marc, the shoe fits. Check out his comments in the 2003 PGA Championship thread:

"It's all right for a no-name to win occasionally, but ONLY when a no-name is beating and competing with golfers fans know ... when you get Chad Campbell and Shaun Micheel going at it in the final round of a major, no one cares. There is no intrigue there. I might as well watch women's softball or something since there's no one I know. If Micheel was going at it with Mickelson or something, then it would be watchable, but that wasn't the case." (Emphasis mine).

I don't think Marc's opinion is not valid, I just think it's uninformed.
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Old 04-24-2004, 09:13 PM   #41
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He is slumping. Not compared to the average PGA player's standards, but to Tiger's standards. He was hyped up to be the best golfer ever. But, after his amazing run, is this the end?

Tiger doesn't seem to have the same passion or focus that he had when he won all of the majors. He used to not get upset so easily and was one of the most clutch players that has ever played.

Now days, his putting sucks, he wants to cries after a bad shot, and just doesn't have the drive he used to have.

I do think that the problem is that he got married. Look at Sampras and Gordon. Sorry, I don't have the exact stats, but once Pete Sampras and Jeff Gordon got married, their game went down hill. Then a few years later when they got divorced, there game came back. I remember Gordon winning one of his next races after the divorce.

SO the solution... dump the girl... even if she is really hot .

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