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Old 05-29-2010, 06:33 AM   #1
Anthony
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Default LenDale White's Stint As Seahawk Dies Aborning

Seahawks cut cord with recently acquired RB LenDale White - The Huddle: Football News from the NFL - USATODAY.com


But hey, doesn't Southwest Airlines offer non-stop flights from Seattle to Philadelphia?

And just think: Bags fly free ...
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Old 05-29-2010, 05:39 PM   #2
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Anthony, I know you have that weird obsession with big RBs, but I don't think any NFL team would benefit from having White on the roster these days. The Titans couldn't wait to get rid of him, and even Pete Carroll decided his team was better off without White. Tennessee has Chris Johnson, but the Seahawks need all the RB help they can get. White is absolutely finished as an impact player in the NFL.
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Old 05-31-2010, 04:41 AM   #3
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I'm only "obsessed" with big RBs because my team really doesn't have one (Leonard Weaver not being a true RB) - just like I was once "obsessed" with fast WRs but no longer am.
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Old 06-01-2010, 08:24 AM   #4
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Let us not forget the reason they cut him is it sounds like he is going to be suspended the first four games of the year.

The thing is in his current state White is no bigger than Mike Bell whom they just signed this spring. If the reports are accurate White is down to 220 and was targeting 228 as his playing weight for next season and Bell typically plays in the 225 to 230 range. So White does not give them any sort of physical dynamic they do not already have at running back.
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:00 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by doublee View Post
Let us not forget the reason they cut him is it sounds like he is going to be suspended the first four games of the year.
My understanding is that the Seahawks knew when they traded for him that White might be suspended:
Quote:
According to La Canfora, the Seahawks were aware of White's possible suspension when they traded for him, and that was not the reason he was cut.
Speculation is that it had more to do with his work ethic. Alternatively, maybe Carroll was disappointed that LenDale has lost 45 pounds.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad O. View Post
This web page describes White as follows:

"LenDale White is a punishing back with great feet that has the ability to fall forward for extra yardage. Over his three-year career, he has shown a propensity to find the end zone."

Would you describe Mike Bell that way?


Quote:
Speculation is that it had more to do with his work ethic.
Yeah - just like, for example, Chael Sonnen is a "blue-collar (MMA) fighter" while, say, Rashad Evans is "athletic and explosive."
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
This web page describes White as follows:

"LenDale White is a punishing back with great feet that has the ability to fall forward for extra yardage. Over his three-year career, he has shown a propensity to find the end zone."

Would you describe Mike Bell that way?
So, should we completely ignore the fact that was written prior to him dropping all of the extra weight prior to last season? He had career lows in yards and average per carry last season and went from 22 TDs over the two previous seasons to just 2 last season. The numbers lead to Brad's assertion that White is done as a productive back. He was a big bruising back when he played at 255/260 but looks like just another back at 225/230.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublee View Post
So, should we completely ignore the fact that was written prior to him dropping all of the extra weight prior to last season? He had career lows in yards and average per carry last season and went from 22 TDs over the two previous seasons to just 2 last season. The numbers lead to Brad's assertion that White is done as a productive back. He was a big bruising back when he played at 255/260 but looks like just another back at 225/230.

Well the answer is simple then:

He needs to go back to being 255/260.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:33 AM   #9
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The problem with that is if he puts the weight back on then he gets slapped with the lazy/overweight tab again. He probably needs to get back around to 240 to 245. The problem with being 260 is he was doughy and out of shape, but he could probably get to 240/245 and still be in good shape.
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Old 06-02-2010, 05:48 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Yeah - just like, for example, Chael Sonnen is a "blue-collar (MMA) fighter" while, say, Rashad Evans is "athletic and explosive."
There are about 100 black running backs in the NFL, and all of the others combined haven't been criticized for their work ethic and training habits as much as White has. Dude has a unique issue with putting the work in and taking care of his body. This began before he was even drafted, when he showed up for workouts far heavier than his USC playing weight and obviously hadn't been working out. Since he joined the NFL, no one has ever described White as "athletic and explosive."

White has a terrible career rushing average (3.7, compared to a leaguewide average of 4.2 over the last five seasons), and he can't catch, so his only value is as the type of short-yardage back Anthony envisions, but he hasn't even been effective at that. White got plenty of opportunities at the goal-line because of his size, but he hasn't been any more effective than smaller backs:

Percentage of Runs Yielding First Downs
career stats

LenDale White [235] - 19.7%
Deuce McAllister [232] - 20.4
Ricky Williams [230] - 20.6
LaDainian Tomlinson [221] - 21.7
Chris Johnson [200] - 21.8
Clinton Portis [221] - 22.0
Tiki Barber [205] - 22.1
Mike Bell [225] - 22.7
Brian Westbrook [203] - 22.8
Marshall Faulk [211] - 23.5
Jonathan Stewart [235] - 23.7
Adrian Peterson [217] - 23.7
Mike Alstott [248] - 23.8
Joseph Addai [214] - 24.3
Maurice Jones-Drew [208] - 24.6
Brandon Jacobs [264] - 25.8

I've included each player's listed weight, according to his NFL.com page. Remember that this exercise is biased toward big backs like White, Stewart, Alstott, and Jacobs, who receive more of their carries in short-yardage situations compared to an every-down back or one who gets some carries on 3rd-and-long, etc.

If White was really the type of player Anthony claims, his percentage would be more in line with those of Stewart and Jacobs than sandwiched between Chester Taylor (19.3%) and Travis Henry (19.8%).

Last season, White set career-lows in rushing yards (222), yards per carry (3.5), rushing TDs (2), rushing first downs (11), receptions (3), receiving yards (14), and receiving first downs (0). The Titans traded him away for a pittance, and the RB-needy Seahawks cut him outright. White has no value to an NFL team at this point.
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad O. View Post
There are about 100 black running backs in the NFL, and all of the others combined haven't been criticized for their work ethic and training habits as much as White has. Dude has a unique issue with putting the work in and taking care of his body. This began before he was even drafted, when he showed up for workouts far heavier than his USC playing weight and obviously hadn't been working out. Since he joined the NFL, no one has ever described White as "athletic and explosive."

I've never heard that term specifically used in the NFL; but if you researched the issue, you would find that the percentage of black NFL players slammed for their "lousy work ethic" is vastly inordinate to their overall percentage in the league as a whole - and you know it. Just ask that noted knee-jerk radical race-baiter Bill Romanowski, who stated that he needed to take diet pills prescribed to his wife under false pretenses so that he could keep up with his black counterparts' "superior athleticism."



Quote:
White has a terrible career rushing average (3.7, compared to a leaguewide average of 4.2 over the last five seasons), and he can't catch, so his only value is as the type of short-yardage back Anthony envisions, but he hasn't even been effective at that. White got plenty of opportunities at the goal-line because of his size, but he hasn't been any more effective than smaller backs:

Percentage of Runs Yielding First Downs
career stats

LenDale White [235] - 19.7%
Deuce McAllister [232] - 20.4
Ricky Williams [230] - 20.6
LaDainian Tomlinson [221] - 21.7
Chris Johnson [200] - 21.8
Clinton Portis [221] - 22.0
Tiki Barber [205] - 22.1
Mike Bell [225] - 22.7
Brian Westbrook [203] - 22.8
Marshall Faulk [211] - 23.5
Jonathan Stewart [235] - 23.7
Adrian Peterson [217] - 23.7
Mike Alstott [248] - 23.8
Joseph Addai [214] - 24.3
Maurice Jones-Drew [208] - 24.6
Brandon Jacobs [264] - 25.8

I've included each player's listed weight, according to his NFL.com page. Remember that this exercise is biased toward big backs like White, Stewart, Alstott, and Jacobs, who receive more of their carries in short-yardage situations compared to an every-down back or one who gets some carries on 3rd-and-long, etc.

If White was really the type of player Anthony claims, his percentage would be more in line with those of Stewart and Jacobs than sandwiched between Chester Taylor (19.3%) and Travis Henry (19.8%).

Last season, White set career-lows in rushing yards (222), yards per carry (3.5), rushing TDs (2), rushing first downs (11), receptions (3), receiving yards (14), and receiving first downs (0). The Titans traded him away for a pittance, and the RB-needy Seahawks cut him outright. White has no value to an NFL team at this point.

As Perry Mason liked to say, this is incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial, since it makes no distinction as to what the previous down and distance was, meaning that a successful first-down run on 1st and 10 - or even 2nd and 30 - is given equal weight with a successful first-down run on 3rd and 1 or 4th and inches; and are touchdown runs even included in those percentages?

Plus you can't compare a big back's yards-per-carry with a smaller back's YPC, because a lot of times the former will get the ball on 3rd and 1, 4th and inches etc. - and if he only picks up 1 or 2 yards on such a play, it brings down the average, even though the objective of the play (i.e., to move the sticks or score a TD) was met (P.S. John Riggins had a truly horrible season in 1982; and what was Booker Russell's PORYFDOTD - about 99?).

Furthermore, it's not as if the Eagles would have to give up a first-round draft pick if they brought White in - or even a seventh-rounder, for that matter. And if all he turned out to be "good for" was short yardage, how much of a hole in the salary cap (which presumably will return once a new CBA is signed) would he blow? And if not Philly, what about Pittsburgh?

Also, I find it interesting that you included the weight for each of the players in your presentation, but not their height.

Last edited by Anthony; 06-04-2010 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:07 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
I've never heard that term specifically used in the NFL; but if you researched the issue, you would find that the percentage of black NFL players slammed for their "lousy work ethic" is vastly inordinate to their overall percentage in the league as a whole - and you know it.
There are about 100 black running backs in the NFL, and all of the others combined haven't been criticized for their work ethic and training habits as much as White has. Dude has a unique issue with putting the work in and taking care of his body. This began before he was even drafted, when he showed up for workouts far heavier than his USC playing weight and obviously hadn't been working out. Since he joined the NFL, no one has ever described White as "athletic and explosive."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
As Perry Mason liked to say, this is incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial, since it makes no distinction as to what the previous down and distance was, meaning that a successful first-down run on 1st and 10 - or even 2nd and 30 - is given equal weight with a successful first-down run on 3rd and 1 or 4th and inches
Are you implying that it is easier to gain a first down on 1st and 10 - or even 2nd and 30 - than on 3rd and 1 or 4th and inches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
and are touchdown runs even included in those percentages?
Yes. The NFL counts a touchdown run as a first-down run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Plus you can't compare a big back's yards-per-carry with a smaller back's YPC, because a lot of times the former will get the ball on 3rd and 1, 4th and inches etc. - and if he only picks up 1 or 2 yards on such a play, it brings down the average, even though the objective of the play (i.e., to move the sticks or score a TD) was met
Fair enough. Compare White's YPC to other big backs; who's he ahead of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Furthermore, it's not as if the Eagles would have to give up a first-round draft pick if they brought White in - or even a seventh-rounder, for that matter. And if all he turned out to be "good for" was short yardage, how much of a hole in the salary cap (which presumably will return once a new CBA is signed) would he blow? And if not Philly, what about Pittsburgh?
Anthony, nobody wants this guy. The Toronto Argonauts would think twice about signing him. He can't run at all, not even short-yardage. The Titans didn't want him, gave him away for almost nothing. The Seahawks didn't want him, and they desperately need running backs. LenDale White has no future in the NFL.

I'm not saying there's no place for a good short-yardage back in the league; I'm saying White is not a good short-yardage back. What on earth makes you think this guy has anything to offer that an NFL team would be interested in?

This reminds me of your repeated assertions in 2005 that Anthony Thomas was an elite RB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Also, I find it interesting that you included the weight for each of the players in your presentation, but not their height.
For heaven's f-ing sake, look it up yourself. Maurice Jones-Drew is the shortest guy on the list.

Last edited by Brad O.; 06-05-2010 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 06-06-2010, 02:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad O. View Post
There are about 100 black running backs in the NFL, and all of the others combined haven't been criticized for their work ethic and training habits as much as White has. Dude has a unique issue with putting the work in and taking care of his body. This began before he was even drafted, when he showed up for workouts far heavier than his USC playing weight and obviously hadn't been working out. Since he joined the NFL, no one has ever described White as "athletic and explosive."

But weight is just a number; and different sport I know, but Roy Nelson's being "fat and out of shape" is absolutely killing his career.

And, as if on cue, this story happened to just appear on one of my favorite sites.


Quote:
Are you implying that it is easier to gain a first down on 1st and 10 - or even 2nd and 30 - than on 3rd and 1 or 4th and inches?

Rather obviously not; but if you call a running play on first down, your objective isn't necessarily to gain 11 or 12 yards on that play. Gaining more than, say, five yards, to set up a run-pass on the next play, is likely more what you had in mind.


Quote:
Anthony, nobody wants this guy. The Toronto Argonauts would think twice about signing him. He can't run at all, not even short-yardage. The Titans didn't want him, gave him away for almost nothing. The Seahawks didn't want him, and they desperately need running backs. LenDale White has no future in the NFL.

I'm not saying there's no place for a good short-yardage back in the league; I'm saying White is not a good short-yardage back. What on earth makes you think this guy has anything to offer that an NFL team would be interested in?

This reminds me of your repeated assertions in 2005 that Anthony Thomas was an elite RB.

I get it - nobody gets a second chance in your world.

And was Anthony Thomas not a multiple thousand-yard runner - i.e., he did it more than once? But show me one instance of my use of the term "elite" to denote him.



Quote:
For heaven's f-ing sake, look it up yourself. Maurice Jones-Drew is the shortest guy on the list.
I wasn't suggesting seriously that you post the numbers. I'm well aware of the vast majority of them.

Last edited by Anthony; 06-06-2010 at 04:23 AM.
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Old 06-07-2010, 04:27 AM   #14
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But weight is just a number; and different sport I know, but Roy Nelson's being "fat and out of shape" is absolutely killing his career.
Don't you get the tiniest bit of cognitive dissonance from arguing that Nelson is doing great and Rashad Evans needs to cut to 170?

And with due respect to MMA, the NFL requires a far greater degree of athleticism. Brock Lesnar got cut in training camp, remember? Every time I hear Mike Goldberg say, "You've never seen a 265-pound man move like this!" I think, "Except every defensive end in the NFL." Besides, Nelson has been fat for a long time, but he's well-schooled and has deceptive cardio; White gained weight because he wasn't staying in shape. Maybe he's in the wrong sport.

Hey, Babe Ruth was fat. I bet he'd have been a great running back!
Charles Barkley is tall and fat. I don't understand why the Eagles haven't signed him yet. They desperately need someone with size for short yardage situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Rather obviously not; but if you call a running play on first down, your objective isn't necessarily to gain 11 or 12 yards on that play. Gaining more than, say, five yards, to set up a run-pass on the next play, is likely more what you had in mind.
So you were agreeing with me, then? White's 19.7% is even more pathetic than it looks in the context of the list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
I get it - nobody gets a second chance in your world.
This isn't about second chances. White's already had a second chance, and a third. He hasn't shown anything to make anyone -- except you, apparently -- believe he's an asset to an NFL franchise.

You keep asking me to prove a negative (which is impossible), but you haven't provided a single reason to positively believe that White has any value for an NFL franchise. So go ahead. Prove how much smarter than Jeff Fisher and Pete Carroll you really are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
And was Anthony Thomas not a multiple thousand-yard runner - i.e., he did it more than once? But show me one instance of my use of the term "elite" to denote him.
Anthony, 1000-yard seasons were a big deal in the 1970s. Reuben Droughns was a multiple 1000-yard runner. Errict Rhett was a multiple 1000-yard runner. Duce Staley topped 1k three times. 23 skiddoo!

Thomas never ranked in the top 10 in rushing yards, and only finished in the top half of the league once. He had one good season -- not great, but good -- as a rookie, and then fizzled away.

I don't know that you ever used the word "elite" to describe him, but you did suggest in early 2005 that he was a wiser investment than Shaun Alexander and Edgerrin James. From that point forward:

Alexander: 3727 YFS, 4.19 ypc, 40 TD, 2005 NFL MVP
James: 5388 YFS, 3.77 ypc, 30 TD
Thomas: 806 YFS, 3.01 ypc, 3 TD

Any team in the league would give up a pair of draft choices to upgrade from Thomas' production to James' or Alexander's. But yeah, that "multiple thousand-yard runner" sure showed everyone who passed on him! Averaging 186 yards, 3.0 yds/att, and 1 TD per season, then no one who wants him at all, the hallmark of a valuable multiple-thousand-yard runner! Hey, maybe he should try out for TUF.
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Old 06-07-2010, 08:29 AM   #15
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Charles Barkley is tall and fat. I don't understand why the Eagles haven't signed him yet. They desperately need someone with size for short yardage situations.
He has bad knees though, so I don't know...
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