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Old 11-19-2003, 09:22 PM   #1
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Default Boneheaded Big East Tie Breakers

After having been thrilled with the prospect of WVU being the Big East's BCS representative in the final year of two of the conference's decade-long powerhouses, I'm likely to need to get used to the idea that Pitt will be that representative after all.

The Big East has a ridiculous (and new, I think) tie-breaker that sends not the head-to-head champ, but the highest BCS ranked team as the BCS representative.

While perusing the Hampton Roads, VA Daily Press (okay, there was a WVU-specific headline in their sports section), they noted that it was unlikely, even with the win over Pitt, that WVU would represent the Big East in the BCS. They noted some stupid-sounding rule, which I looked up, and quote here:

Quote:
# Team A defeats Team B and is higher ranked - Team A earns bid.
# Team A defeats Team B and is ranked lower, but in Top 10 - Team A earns bid (except if Team B is ranked No. 1 or No. 2 in the BCS poll, then Team B earns bid.)
# Team A defeats Team B and is ranked lower, but no less than five positions below Team B - Team A earns bid.
# Team A defeats Team B and is ranked lower, and more than five positions below Team B - Team B earns bid.
# If the two teams have the same ranking, or both are unranked, the bid goes to the team that has won the head-to-head contest.
The HR Daily Press claimed that WVU currently ranked 29th in the BCS. Not sure where they got their number; anything beyond 25 I can't find. However with a very suspect estimate of having a BCS score around 63, 29th seems a reasonable guess. 25th ranked Pitt has a score of 52.

The Daily Press rightly points out that with WVU unlikely to raise its ranking much against Syracuse (5-4 going in) and Temple (1-8 going in), and that Pitt, if they beat Miami, will see a very strong BCS ranking rise, and lead WVU by more than five ranking spots.

WVU's not dead yet, but... at least, with a Pitt win over Miami, neither Miami nor VT will represent the Big East in the BCS.

It's too much to hope that Pitt will stumble at Temple, and rebound by beating Miami. Or that Rutgers will beat Miami. It's certainly something, but...

So, Gator Bowl, here come the Mountaineers, whether you like it or not. There's no Notre Dame to steal our rightful bowl this year!!!!

Dave
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:02 PM   #2
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That's f**in' criminal, and I can't imagine that rule existing before the BCS, because there would have been no purpose for it. Seems to me they ANTICIPATED a scenario like the one WVU is going to hand them this year, and wanted to prevent it from happening.

This almost makes me glad the the Big East got raped by the ACC, it seems as though their concept of fairness is hardly different than the ACCs.
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Old 11-19-2003, 11:38 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by KevinBeane
it seems as though their concept of fairness is hardly different than the ACCs.
Instructive words, Kevin. The reason Miami claimed they wanted to make the switch was due to continued unfairness in distribution of the conference doles. Miami apparently foresaw that Coker wasn't going to take them to the promised land every season, and didn't want to live in a conference where the budget could be smaller by an entire 25% depending on conference finish. Reportedly, the ACC gives everyone a flat fee to subsist on, and bonuses to top finishers, which makes budgeting in off years a good deal easier.

I'll be unsurprised to find that the ACC changes the way the method they use in distributing the conference doles in the next couple years, short-shrifting Duke and Wake football, while continuing to be certain Miami and FSU are propped up, even in years that by some bizarre fluke, they don't meet in the title game.

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Old 11-20-2003, 05:56 PM   #4
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Tech wins out..they've got the Gator..least that whats we're hearin from a few reps from the gator
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Old 11-20-2003, 08:07 PM   #5
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Not quite sure how that could be, hokies, with VT virtually locked out of better than a tie for #2... Gator Bowl goes to #2 Big East.

If VT gets the Gator Bowl as Big East #3 or #4, I'm going to set fire to my own sofa and send its dusty black remains to Blacksburg.

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Old 11-20-2003, 08:29 PM   #6
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Thats what A rep from the Gator said...but its rediculous lol..oh well
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Old 11-21-2003, 03:18 PM   #7
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The SEC changed their tiebreaker involving 3 teams a few weeks ago, and now the Big East changes their tiebreaker down the stretch of the season as well. These new rules give hotter teams like Florida and WVU almost no chance of getting a BCS bid within their conference. Florida and WVU have been playing better ball than any team within their conferences (with the exception of Ole Miss who will see how good they are vs. LSU this weekend), yet both of these teams looked to be held out of the BCS.

The way college football has gone this season, I would not doubt that WVU could play with any team in the country, and I think Florida and WVU have both proven they can beat top flight teams. These new rules suck, and the SEC and Big East are keeping quite possiby the hottest teams in both respective confereces out of the BCS. I would think that the SEC and Big East would want their hottest team to go to the BCS, but I guess not.

I think WVU deserves more of a shot at the BCS because I think they could dominate any team in their conference at this point in the season. Florida on the other hand deserves a little less of a shot as they are in a 3 way tie with teams just in the SEC East, and Ole Miss seems to be the better team this year. However if LSU goes to Ole Miss and crushes them, then the SEC is just a complete wash because hell everyone beat everyone. At that point, LSU would be the odds on favorite for best team in SEC.

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Old 11-21-2003, 07:50 PM   #8
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I didn't realize that the SEC changed their rules. They got rid of the much-ridiculed SEC presidents vote for the representative clause? Too bad, I was rooting for that to come into effect.

The BCS's interests, by the way, Joey, are not in "hot" teams, but in teams that draw ratings. Miami (who was clearly being protected from VT in the Big East's drawing up of these rules) is a top TV ratings-getter. Ohio State, Michigan, SC, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Florida, Florida State: these are the teams the BCS wants to choose from year-in/year-out. There will be grave moaning in BCS and TVland should both the Trojans and Buckeyes fall this weekend, and LSU bounds ahead and remains ahead of Michigan by winning their remaining games.

Of course, at least BCSland doesn't have to worry about TCU stepping on anyone's toes anymore...

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Old 11-21-2003, 10:51 PM   #9
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Yeah, in a three way tie the final tiebreaker was to let the ADs of each school not involved in the tie or the SEC West conference winner to vote on who should go to the SEC championship game. So now, the highest ranked BCS team of the 3 will get to go to the SEC title game. That being said, it pretty much eliminates Florida since UGA's and UT's schedule is pretty easy the rest of the way. Funny thing about this rule is that it came out after Tennessee beat Miami, if I am not mistaken, and that moved Tennessee even higher in the BCS rankings. Changing the rules midseason is just not right at all. And this was not even mid season, this was near the end of the season. Of course, it pisses me off more because my team is involved in this.

I know all too well who the BCS wants to play in their games, and it is so bad that we may see a 3 loss Michigan team ( if they lose to Ohio State that is), play in a BCS game (probably the Rose Bowl vs. Washington State). This would be a Michigan team with 3 losses and no conference title for an at large bid, but it might happen. I want to see new teams in the BCS from major conferences.....the ones who are actually playing the best, but that is just too much to ask for.

As you speak of LSU, their defense might be the best in college football. Now I know that might wake some people up, especially in Buckeye land, but LSU's defense has been awesome this year giving up an average of 9 points a game. They blitz the hell out of opposing teams, and there is not much chance for teams to get into any kind of offensive flow. LSU will be tested vs. Eli Manning and Ole Miss this weekend, and I think they pass that test by winning by 14 on the road vs. an undefeated Ole Miss team in SEC play.

Joey
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Old 11-23-2003, 04:28 PM   #10
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Well no gator for tech haha..here we come continental tire bowl :-\
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Old 11-29-2003, 09:08 AM   #11
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If nothing else, this whole mess is just one more reason that the BCS needs to go, and be replaced by a 16-team post-season tournament to determine the national champion.

It also raises another one of my "pet" issues: What's wrong with games ending in a tie? If they still could, teams could finish a half-game ahead of or behind other teams, and the silly scenario alluded to in the post that started this thread probably never would have arisen. Just get rid of the ridiculous overtime procedures that college football has in place now, and implement a 10-minute, non-sudden death period - and if the game is still tied after that, it's a tie.

But back to the actual topic: What would be so wrong with adopting NFL-style tie-breakers? If two teams finish with the same record, whoever won the head-to-head game between them, if there was one, finishes higher; if no such game was played (or if one was and it did end in a tie), then it goes to division record if the conference does have divisions (such as the SEC), otherwise you can go to record against common opponents (conference games only). If three (or more) teams are involved, head-to-head would be used so long as every team involved in the tie had at least opportunity to play at least one of the others (in a three-way tie this could mean that Team A might win the conference title on the grounds of having gone 1-0 against Teams B and C combined, while Team B was 1-1 and Team C 0-1). If this either doesn't break the tie or cannot be used because one of the tied teams didn't play either/any of the others (which is possible in a conference like the Big 10 or Pac-10 that doesn't have divisions but every team still doesn't play every other team in the conference), then you could go to common opponents and, if necessary, overall record, including non-conference games, with the following stipulation - any non-conference game played against a non-Division 1-A opponent does not count as a win if the team involved in the tie won the game - but does count as a loss if they lost it (to discourage intentional "cupcake" scheduling). And when all else fails, you can always go to the time-honored policy of awarding the title to the team among those tied that had gone longest since last winning the conference title - and there's no way this can be tied unless it came down to two teams who had only recently joined that conference and had never finished first therein before.

Last edited by Anthony; 11-29-2003 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 11-30-2003, 03:17 PM   #12
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I'm going to kill the person who came up with math. Better yet....I'll kill the BCS inventor.

This is as simple as it gets. If Team A beats Team B, Team A is better than Team B. Team A should be higher than Team B (if they have the same records).

How simple is that? Now we have rules that if Team B beats Team A, but is ranked 6 spots lower than Team A in the BCS, then regardless of being better than Team A, Team B will be left out and Team A will be the higher seed.

If this is a no-brainer....why is it so complicated?
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Old 11-30-2003, 07:08 PM   #13
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Playoff system.

It will never happen in Division 1A, but it's the only solution.

Of course, Miami winning prevented any Big East controversy, since they beat West Virginian (barely) and Pitt.
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Old 12-01-2003, 03:17 PM   #14
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It did work out in the Big East, but it did not work out in the SEC. Florida is the only team in the SEC that beat both LSU and Georgia, who will be playing each other for the SEC crown this weekend, yet they stay at home to watch this game.

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