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Old 10-09-2007, 06:00 PM   #1
philabramoff
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Default Is Brett Favre the greatest QB of all time?

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this, and am admittedly biased
in favor of Brett, but then again hesitant to call him the "greatest of
all time" especially in the face of how many times he's frustrated Packer
fans by absolutely BLOWING games with last minute interceptions.

I've been modifying my thinking though.

Here's my argument, considering the competition...

Joe Montana....great QB who won Super Bowls with a Great O-Line
(Randy Cross, Fred Quillen, Keith Fahnhorst), a great D, and skill
players like Jerry Rice, Dwight Clark, and Roger Craig. (Consider
Steve Young to have inherited the same supporting cast).

Johnny Unitas...HOF QB, with other hall-of-famers around him like
Lenny Moore, Raymond Berry, and Jim Parker, and an outstanding
defense to back him up.

Dan Marino...lit up the scoreboard and record books, behind HOF
center Dwight Stephenson, and throwing to WR's Mark Clayton and
Mark Duper.

Tom Brady...he'll win a few more Super Bowls, and he successfully
manages probably the most talented overall team in the game today.

Peyton Manning...likely future holder of all the QB records, playing
behind Jeff Saturday and great O-Line, throwing to Marvin Harrison
and Reggie Wayne, although an inconsistent defense.

Fran Tarkenton...he also played behind a GREAT O-Line that had
Ron Yary, Mick Tingelhoff, and Ed White. He also had Chuck Foreman,
Sammy White, and Ahmad Rashad to throw to.

John Elway...won two Super Bowls, with some great talent around him,
too, including Terrell Davis, and a good group of receivers. Consider
also the "Orange Crush" defense that backed him up, too.

Bob Griese...won two Super Bowls with HOF'ers Larry Little, Larry Csonka,
and Paul Warfield, plus the great "No-Name" defense.

Terry Bradshaw...won two Super Bowls with HOF'ers Lynn Swann, John
Stallworth, Franco Harris, and Mike Webster, plus the great "Steel
Curtain" defense.

Troy Aikman...won three Super Bowls with HOF'ers Emmitt Smith and
Michael Irvin, plus great O-Line anchored by Larry Allen and Erik
Williams, and solid Dallas defense.

Others come to mind, like Bart Starr, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Otto Graham,
Bobby Layne, Kenny Stabler, Roger Staubach, Roman Gabriel, Sid Luckman,
Sonny Jurgensen, Drew Bledsoe, and some others, who, at a stretch,
you could put, at least, on the list of consideration.

Brett Favre...???
Other than the 1995-1997 time period when everything came together
for the Packers, with a solid running game, O-Line, great defense, and
Reggie White....
...what has he had to work with?
...a shaky offensive line, that seems to keep getting decimated by
free agency.
...a revolving door of receivers from year to year.
...an inconsistent defense that oscillates between adequate and lousy.
...their best runner since 1997 being Ahman Green.
...playing outdoors, with 3-4 games each year in the bitter cold.

Still...151 wins and counting. 242 straight starts and counting.
Record for most attempts and completions. 423 Touchdowns and
counting. Closing in on the yardage record.

Maybe the measure is how much a quarterback has accomplished,
carrying his team on his own.

If we can call Michael Jordan the greatest player in the history of
the NBA, maybe we can call Brett Favre the greatest QB in the
history of the NFL.

How do you all analyze this reasoning on Brett.

(BTW...tomorrow is Brett's birthday. Significant, because its mine, too!!)
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:17 PM   #2
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This is how I have been viewing the "greatest QB's of all time" lately....

I've been doing thinking about the greats...

We have two categories that make QB's "great": STATS and RINGS

Lets look at some of the STATS (or potential) leaders:
Farve
Marino
Manning

Lets look at who have MORE THAN ONE ring:
Elway
Brady
Montana
Aikman

Now I know we have a lot more, but it seems like the above are always mentioned the most so we'll just use them. This is how I decided who the best is...

On all those teams.... did the QB have any HOF (or potential HOF) players to help them out? If so... they go to the bottom of the list...
Take Aikman for example... I love the guy, he awesome. But he also had Emmit Smith and Michael Irvin. (not too mention that O-line and Jay Novacheck!!)

I look at Dan Marino... no rings - but who did he ever have? Nobody - he ranks up their for getting his team to the playoffs and holding records for a while with no supporting cast.

Manning has had Harrison forever, a hall of famer. He also had Edge for a while, but that said, they did not win their SB with Edge as RB.

See where I am going with all this....

The last player I'll mention my man Brady and make a case. You have a guy with 3 rings, and 2 SB MVP's and NOT ONE HOF on that squad. Think about that. And now that he does have people around him, he is having numbers like we used to see with Peyton a few years ago. If New England keeps up the season and cruises to a SB one could only wonder what Brady would of done those 3 SB years with weopons he has now. Makes for interesting thought IMO.
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:25 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply, and I see the "Boston" thing there, so you're evidently
a Brady fan. As for Marino, I want to remind you that he played behind HOF
center Dwight Stephenson, who is unheralded, but that's a HUGE factor in
helping him out (watch some old game films...Dwight Stephenson is the
greatest center to ever play the game!!). Marino also had the "Marks brothers"
for a good consistent 8-plus years.
As for Brady...he's great, and will probably have 5-6 rings by the time his
career ends. As for HOF'ers, give it time, some players from that team will
be named. Also, and GIVE YOUR TEAM SOM CREDIT!!! New England is far and
away THE most overall talented TEAM in the NFL right now.
Could you imagine Brett Favre with a New England team around him?
Would Tom Brady be able to "manage" the current Packer roster to a Super Bowl?
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:28 PM   #4
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Short answer -- no he is not the greatest of all time. He may not even be the best in his franchise history. Bart Starr did pretty well during his career.
Brett Favre is going to be enshrined in Canton when he finally hangs up his cleats, but he is not the best of all times.
Personally, I think Joe Montana was the best of all-times due to his play in "big" games. Marino was a close second.
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:34 PM   #5
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Lets not forget another record Favre owns as well...most INT's...
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philabramoff View Post
Thanks for the reply, and I see the "Boston" thing there, so you're evidently
a Brady fan. As for Marino, I want to remind you that he played behind HOF
center Dwight Stephenson, who is unheralded, but that's a HUGE factor in
helping him out (watch some old game films...Dwight Stephenson is the
greatest center to ever play the game!!). Marino also had the "Marks brothers"
for a good consistent 8-plus years.
As for Brady...he's great, and will probably have 5-6 rings by the time his
career ends. As for HOF'ers, give it time, some players from that team will
be named. Also, and GIVE YOUR TEAM SOM CREDIT!!! New England is far and
away THE most overall talented TEAM in the NFL right now.
Could you imagine Brett Favre with a New England team around him?
Would Tom Brady be able to "manage" the current Packer roster to a Super Bowl?
I do give NE credit... this year they are loaded - no question. Look at 2001 or 2003.
Your best WR is Troy Brown - RB's like JR Redman, Antwan Smith. Granted I'll credit the NE defense with that SB more than Brady (although he did win MVP).

I'm not sure if Brady could manage the current Pack roster to a SB.... I don't think anybody could to be honest.

I honestly think when his career is over Tom Brady just may be the greatest quarterback to ever play the game of football. I know thats a bold statement but what if he retires with 6 rings? How could you argue that? I know we talk about TD passes, yards, ect, ect. But think about this... Why do people play the game? To win. Period. They play the game to win and if you walk away with 4+ SB rings you are the best - hands down.
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Old 10-09-2007, 10:16 PM   #7
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The problem with Brady is he has zero league MVPs, Favre has three. I know it's like a zit on a super model, but it's something. How can the guy be the greatest ever when he was never greatest in the league over a season? That said, I think Favre is top-three, No. 1 if he wins another Super Bowl.
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Old 10-09-2007, 10:27 PM   #8
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But Brady has 2 Superbowl MVP's. Who was winning the league MVP's when Brady was winning SB's? Peyton Manning because he had future HOF Harrison and others around him. Funny how now that Brady has Moss (a possible future HOF) and others around him he is having an MVP season.
I don't think league MVP's mean that much anyway... I just think Superbowl rings are what matter.
I'm not saying he's the best now, I'm just saying he has potential. Seriously, if 5 years from now Tom Brady has 6 SB rings that would be unbelievable. But it could happen.
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Old 10-09-2007, 10:35 PM   #9
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Desmond Howard won a Super Bowl MVP. You sometimes get players who step up crucially, but aren't HOFers winning Super Bowl MVP. The league MVP shows more sustained success and excellence over a longer period. But yes, SB rings matter most.
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Old 10-09-2007, 10:39 PM   #10
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I know - Oh I remember Desmond Howard Marc!! You don't have to remind me!!

Yeah, I know league MVP's show that you had a great season, but IMO who cares if you didn't get a ring. If you are awesome all season and have a game like Romo did last night in the playoffs - how will everyone remember you? Not as the greatest ya know?

Favre is prob 5th all time of my list.
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:42 PM   #11
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Favre the greatest???

Not to be long winded but....no.

He's been a great QB in a lot of areas at times but we're seeing/hearing more of the Hype Machine due to his career coming to a close & being the last true Iron Man throwback at a fragile position. Give him his due but let's stop all the over-the-top lovin' (in the media)...Please...
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Old 10-12-2007, 07:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus View Post
Favre the greatest???

Not to be long winded but....no.

He's been a great QB in a lot of areas at times but we're seeing/hearing more of the Hype Machine due to his career coming to a close & being the last true Iron Man throwback at a fragile position. Give him his due but let's stop all the over-the-top lovin' (in the media)...Please...
But look at the lovin' Cal Ripken got for being an iron man, and he didn't hold nearly as many records as Favre. I think the combination is what makes Favre worthy of the praise.
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Old 10-12-2007, 11:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
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But look at the lovin' Cal Ripken got for being an iron man, and he didn't hold nearly as many records as Favre. I think the combination is what makes Favre worthy of the praise.
Favre is more than worthy of praise. I never meant he didn't. Like I said, give him his due...

Just that 'The Greatest' tag is more media invention than reality...
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:17 AM   #14
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I've been doing more thinking about this...

Aside the interception record, and Brett's inconsistency,
I've settled on the most convincing evidence in FAVOR
of Brett as greatest of all-time (so far)....

The all-time WINS record (152 and counting). That's what
it's about, isn't it.

Peyton and Tom Brady may one day pass him up, but for now,
it's Brett who stands alone.
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Old 10-29-2007, 08:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philabramoff View Post
I've been doing more thinking about this...

Aside the interception record, and Brett's inconsistency,
I've settled on the most convincing evidence in FAVOR
of Brett as greatest of all-time (so far)....

The all-time WINS record (152 and counting). That's what
it's about, isn't it.

Peyton and Tom Brady may one day pass him up, but for now,
it's Brett who stands alone.
I surely don't want to sound like I'm dissin' a favorite of anyone but I've never been a 'stat man' to put an argument over the top. Soooo...all I can say about the wins records would be based on the 1st thing that would make that stat a little skewed & that's the Iron Man streak that's helped him up the count & the same reason that helped him to the INT record as example...

The Greatest tag, at least to me, has a few things to take into consideration & part of it is finding ways to overcome obstacles. While every QB needs a team effort to make things like that happen, I've watched Favre thru the years (living in the midwest) & have watched firsthand of the multitude # of times thru the years that #4s reckless, gunslinger mentality actually was the main reason that the Pack lost or lost the opportunity for the W. Regular season is a treasure chest of wins for QBs/teams who go after it but come playoff time when the level of comp is higher & games tougher, the pressure & challenge is there. Favre's weakness is & has always been a lack of patience at key moments/stretches in games where he inexplicably forces things...

Not a Damning offense or posted to denigrate #4 but 1 that's a fault in his game. He just loses points in the ultimate Greatest tag IMO...
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