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Old 08-23-2004, 08:33 AM   #31
Bleedbluenwhite
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Hey, I'm a Miami fan, but Feilder in the top ten? No way. Brady at 11? Sure, just find me anyone who would make the Feilder for Brady trade.
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Old 08-23-2004, 11:15 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bleedbluenwhite
Hey, I'm a Miami fan, but Feilder in the top ten? No way. Brady at 11? Sure, just find me anyone who would make the Feilder for Brady trade.
yeah i understand I just don't like Tom Brady, I just don't think he is that great. I think Jay Feildler will step up and have a better year than most people think. I put Vick in the top 10 b/c i know what he is capable of. He will take the Falcons to the playoffs. How can you say we don't know what he can do after carrying the falcons on his back, into GREEN BAY! and winning. Has anyone else ever done that? than he gets hurt and the falcons are crap, what does that tell ya?
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Old 08-23-2004, 01:09 PM   #33
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Hey I hope your right about Feildler, but I'd still rather have Brady.
You're right on Vick, we haven't even see close to what this guy is capable of.
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Old 08-23-2004, 02:17 PM   #34
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Brady may not put up the greatest numbers, but he has 2 rings which trumps anything that Fiedler or Vick have ever done. His numbers are top ten caliber numbers and the fact that he wins big games and is on the reigning Super Bowl Champion pushes him up towards the top 5 QBs in the league. Ultimately QBs are judged on how many rings they win. I can accept Vick being ranked at or near 10th based on his percieved upside as a passer. I am not entirely convinced he is ever going to be a great passer in the NFL.

gconn, you are the first person I have heard say that Fiedler is going to have a better year than most people think. Most of what I have heard on TV and the radio is that Miami may very well have the worst offense in the league. With no running game to speak of I will be surprised if Fielder makes it through the season intact.
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Old 08-23-2004, 02:45 PM   #35
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This would be my top ten list.

1. P. Manning

2. Favre

3. McNabb

4. Brady

5. Culpepper

6. McNair

7. Vick

8. Pennington

9. Plummer

10. Hasslebeck

Plummer may have been a little high on Queen's list but in no way is he a bad QB. Even with Clinton Portis the Bronco's offense came to a screaching halt without Plummer last year. He fits in perfect in Shannahan's offensive scheme. He has all the tools and just needs to get a little more comfortable in the pocket. I wouldn't pick him on my fantasy team but I'm glad the Bronco's got their hands on him. I don't understand the Plummer bashing I thought he proved himself last year. Whatever
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Old 08-23-2004, 03:12 PM   #36
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Man, Trent Green is getting absolutely no love from this board. The guy threw for over 4,000 yards last season to go along with his 24 touchdowns with just 12 INTs. Priest Holmes takes a lot of the pressure off of him, but you don't get a QB rating over 90 when you're an average quarterback, especially when you have the kind of "quality" receivers that the Chiefs have employed the last few seasons.

Over the past two years, he's thrown 50 touchdowns with a rating of 92.6 both years. It's not his fault the defense couldn't stop a paraplegic from running for 150 yards.
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Old 08-23-2004, 03:31 PM   #37
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You got a point Noon. I think Green just gets overshadowed by Priest and a dominating O-line. But.......... I still don't put him in the top ten.
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Old 08-23-2004, 04:47 PM   #38
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Since I last posted, these are my points in general, made when/wherever appropriate.

1. Bledsoe's inconsistency depends wholly on his protection. Keep him clean, and he will kill defenses. This is true for most QBs.
2. I rank Bledsoe's immediate future brighter than Favre's because
a) I don't regard the Packer's receivers very highly
b) I don't regard the Packers' d very highly
c) The Packers have a tougher division, now that the Dolphins have given up completely on this season.
3. Fiedler has no running game, and he's a QB who HAS to have a running game to keep him alive. Fiedler, while I actually respect him more than your average football fan, cannot win football games with Minor as his RB, and Booker and Chambers (each role player WRs) as his main targets. And, Fiedler DOESN'T compare favorably to Tom Brady in any way shape or form.
4. I think this is McNair's last hurrah, to be sure, but I think Chris Brown will be the running back that he needs to be to keep the Titans involved in postseason hunt.
5. We know these things about Michael Vick:
a) He can run like the wind.
b) He can throw a football through a brick wall.
c) He can't read a defense to save his life.
d) He has, at best, questionable accuracy.
e) He may very well be injury prone at this level.
6. Green is Kurt Warner, only a couple years later. And before the injuries. For those who aren't fully aware, Warner is a flash-in-the-pan fraud whose time is done, and whose retirement will likely be announced in the next 6 weeks. Oh, Warner also benefited greatly from an ingenious system that utilized his talented running back in such a way as to give his offense a sense of invincibility. Take away that RB, or throw in a full-of-himself creator of ingenious offense to call the plays, and the offense is just another Air Coryell... all gussied up to flop when the cards are on the table.
7. Anyone who thinks Plummer should even start in this league... well, let's just say that his starting is evidence of the thinning of talent that parity and expansion have wrought.
8. Bledsoe ahead of Favre, while I do consider it to be somewhat true, was really thrown in to irritate Marc. I can't think of anyone besides those two to fill the Top Five. Remember the criteria: immediate bright future/resume. Bledsoe's resume, while recently marked, is awfully good. Favre's resume, while recently marked, is also awfully good. His possession of a ring doesn't mean is necessarily better (he is, Marc, take a breath!). Would anyone suggest that Tom Brady is twice as good as, for instance, Dan Marino. Or, to go with contemporaries, that Montana was 4 times as good as Marino. Hey, I worship Montana and despise Marino, but the difference between them as great QBs... not that much.
9. And, finally, because someone was blasting Brady's numbers... not that dissimilar to a certain Mr Bledsoe, comparing first years at the helms of their teams... Brady had a couple fewer TDs, many fewer INTs, yards are darn near equivalent. And Bledsoe had Martin to give the ball to. Brady has had... Antowain Smith? Definitely not a CMartin class running back.

Dave
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Old 08-23-2004, 06:53 PM   #39
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Dave, I had some similar thoughts about Green. I think a lot of 'Insiders' view Trent Green as a product of Vermeil's offense more than anything else. With that being the case Green's numbers pail in comparison to Warner's when he was on top. During Warner's three year run (1999-2001) he threw a total of 98 TDs, 53 INTs, completed 67% of his passes, and 12,612 yards. During Green's three years in KC he has thrown 67 TDs, 49 INTs, 60.2 completion percentage, and 11,512 yards. Ultimately, the perception is that one could drop just about anyone into that offense and they could probably throw for upwards of 4,000 yards and 25 TDs every season. Plus, Green has not shown an ability to win a big game when they need him to.
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Old 08-23-2004, 11:43 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by MountaineerDave
Since I last posted, these are my points in general, made when/wherever appropriate.

1. Bledsoe's inconsistency depends wholly on his protection. Keep him clean, and he will kill defenses. This is true for most QBs.
2. I rank Bledsoe's immediate future brighter than Favre's because
a) I don't regard the Packer's receivers very highly
b) I don't regard the Packers' d very highly
c) The Packers have a tougher division, now that the Dolphins have given up completely on this season.
3. Fiedler has no running game, and he's a QB who HAS to have a running game to keep him alive. Fiedler, while I actually respect him more than your average football fan, cannot win football games with Minor as his RB, and Booker and Chambers (each role player WRs) as his main targets. And, Fiedler DOESN'T compare favorably to Tom Brady in any way shape or form.
4. I think this is McNair's last hurrah, to be sure, but I think Chris Brown will be the running back that he needs to be to keep the Titans involved in postseason hunt.
5. We know these things about Michael Vick:
a) He can run like the wind.
b) He can throw a football through a brick wall.
c) He can't read a defense to save his life.
d) He has, at best, questionable accuracy.
e) He may very well be injury prone at this level.
6. Green is Kurt Warner, only a couple years later. And before the injuries. For those who aren't fully aware, Warner is a flash-in-the-pan fraud whose time is done, and whose retirement will likely be announced in the next 6 weeks. Oh, Warner also benefited greatly from an ingenious system that utilized his talented running back in such a way as to give his offense a sense of invincibility. Take away that RB, or throw in a full-of-himself creator of ingenious offense to call the plays, and the offense is just another Air Coryell... all gussied up to flop when the cards are on the table.
7. Anyone who thinks Plummer should even start in this league... well, let's just say that his starting is evidence of the thinning of talent that parity and expansion have wrought.
8. Bledsoe ahead of Favre, while I do consider it to be somewhat true, was really thrown in to irritate Marc. I can't think of anyone besides those two to fill the Top Five. Remember the criteria: immediate bright future/resume. Bledsoe's resume, while recently marked, is awfully good. Favre's resume, while recently marked, is also awfully good. His possession of a ring doesn't mean is necessarily better (he is, Marc, take a breath!). Would anyone suggest that Tom Brady is twice as good as, for instance, Dan Marino. Or, to go with contemporaries, that Montana was 4 times as good as Marino. Hey, I worship Montana and despise Marino, but the difference between them as great QBs... not that much.
9. And, finally, because someone was blasting Brady's numbers... not that dissimilar to a certain Mr Bledsoe, comparing first years at the helms of their teams... Brady had a couple fewer TDs, many fewer INTs, yards are darn near equivalent. And Bledsoe had Martin to give the ball to. Brady has had... Antowain Smith? Definitely not a CMartin class running back.

Dave
no offense but no one has time to read a post that long or you are a extreme loser.
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Old 08-24-2004, 08:59 AM   #41
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You know implying that a mod of the boards is an extreme loser for writing a well thought out argument on the topic is not a good way to last on a message board where a certain degree of maturity seems to be expected.
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Old 08-24-2004, 09:08 AM   #42
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sorry i just don't have time
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Old 08-24-2004, 09:24 AM   #43
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That is fine just don't call him an extreme loser that is all.
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Oooh, there is so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy.
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Old 08-24-2004, 11:21 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by gconnhokiebird
no offense but no one has time to read a post that long or you are a extreme loser.


Bahahahaha

I think somebody needs a trip to the penalty box.
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Old 08-24-2004, 11:35 AM   #45
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Or a good swift kick in the arse. Which is probably coming.
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