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Old 01-05-2006, 09:21 PM   #31
doublee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
NFL Draft Scout has Hagan at 4.50 - nowhere near as fast as Santonio Holmes, who is quoted at under 4.30 in some places, or Martin Nance, for whom a 4.33 is listed.

I'm not saying that Hagan won't make an impact in the NFL - just that Holmes or Nance would be far more suitable for a speed-starved team like the Eagles (Hagan would be ideal for the Colts if, as expected, they lose Reggie Wayne in free agency).
NFL Draft Scout doesn't even have Nance rated as a top five reciever. Kiper and Scouts, Inc. both have Hagan rated as a mid first rounder. This Nance character doesn't seem to recognized by anyone which leads me to believe he may be all style and no substance.

Someone will probably take a flyer on Shockley to see if he can do something for them, but he is a bit on the smallish side and has very limited experience as a starting QB at the college level.

The comparisons of Vince Young to Vick are so ludicrous. For one Young is a legit 6-5/ 235-240 lbs so he has the size to take the hits while Vick is six feet tall and a little over 200 lbs. Secondly, when Vick came out he was a fairly mediocre passer and the Falcons assumed he would develop into a quality NFL passer. Vick completed 54% of his passes for only 1439 yards his final year in college. Young is a far superior passer at the collegiate level than Vick ever was. He finished third in the nation in passer rating this year completing 65% of his passes for over 3,000 yards. Vince Young took the next step and blossomed into a quality passer at the collegiate level. On top of all that Young's leadership qualities are so much better than Vick's. Just watching the two one gets the sense that Young truly enjoys playing the game and his teammates respond favorably to him. He commands the respect of his teammates. Conversely, I get the sense that Vick treats football as the vessel that gave him financial security for the rest of his life. He just does not seem to exude that swagger or leadership that championship QBs do.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:28 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Jay 05
Vince Young can definitley be successful in the NFL, as long as he makes better decisions than Vick and doesn't make wild erratic throws frequently.
Yeah, I hope I didn't come off as saying he wouldn't suceed. But I don't think that type of play has what it takes to win a SB. But M. Vick, V. Young have plenty of years ahead to prove me wrong. Sure, if you put enough superstars in there at WR and RB and have a good "D" - then yeah, they can win. But usually you lose something out of your team if you have to drop a $60m contract on a players like that who are always a 1st round pick (top 5 at least). It will be interesting - I sure do wanna see him play in the NFL and see what he can do. I think even though he is young, maybe Vick let some of us down (specially this year), so that kind of costs Young (if that makes any sense?).
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Originally Posted by doublee
The comparisons of Vince Young to Vick are so ludicrous. For one Young is a legit 6-5/ 235-240 lbs so he has the size to take the hits while Vick is six feet tall and a little over 200 lbs. Secondly, when Vick came out he was a fairly mediocre passer and the Falcons assumed he would develop into a quality NFL passer.
Physically, yeah. But I was comparing that QB scramble style of playing. These QB's with better legs than arms. They finish up games with more rushing yards than passing.
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Last edited by boston_aloha; 01-05-2006 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:53 PM   #33
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Comparing Vince Young to Michael Vick might not be exactly fair, doublee, but it's bound to happen because their college careers have been predicated on being run-first or run-option QBs. Physically, Young compares more appropriately with Daunte Culpepper, but with speed. Problem is, Young has nothing near the arm that Culpepper has. And, it's also not incredibly clear that his decision-making skills (passing the ball) are any better than Culpepper's or Vick's (both are pretty lousy, really).
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Old 01-06-2006, 12:11 AM   #34
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Here's the order for the first-round:

1 2-14 Houston
2 3-13 New Orleans
3 4-12 Tennessee
4 4-12 NY Jets
5 4-12 Green Bay
6 4-12 San Francisco @
7 4-12 Oakland @
8 5-11 Buffalo
9 5-11 Detroit
10 5-11 Arizona
11 6-10 St. Louis
12 6-10 Cleveland
13 6-10 Baltimore
14 6-10 Philadelphia
15 8-8 Atlanta
16 9-7 Miami
17 9-7 Minnesota
18 9-7 Dallas
19 9-7 San Diego
20 10-6 Kansas City
21 10-6 New England*
22 10-6 Denver (from WAS)*
23 11-5 Tampa Bay*
24 11-5 Carolina*
25 11-5 Chicago*
26 11-5 Cincinnati*
27 11-5 Pittsburgh*
28 11-5 New York Giants*
29 12-4 Jacksonville
30 13-3 Denver*
31 13-3 Seattle*
32 14-2 Indianapolis*

@ - Will be determined by coin flip
* Playoff teams' order will be determined by playoff finish


I have no idea why the Pats fans here are even thinking about getting AJ Hawk, who's a top 10 selection for sure.

Derek Hagan is listed by Scout as the fourth-best receiver eligible for the draft. He's an outstanding receiver. I've seen a lot of Pac-10 games this season, and Derek is definitely a good selection for any team looking for WRs.

At #6 or #7, I would love for the Raiders to take Michael Huff. Oakland needs everything on defense, and it would be wise to take an elite safety to shore up that secondary, especially considering that Woodson may be good (or he'll be franchised for the fourth straight season...). If Huff's taken, DT Haloti Ngati of Oregon or CB Jimmy Williams from VTech would be good selections.
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Old 01-06-2006, 04:24 PM   #35
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The Jets need so many positions, I'm not sure yet who would be best for them.
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Old 01-06-2006, 05:52 PM   #36
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Derek Hagan is a stud. He's not as fast as Santonio Holmes, but he's got surefire hands and is BIG. Another Pac-10 guy to watch out for in this draft is Haloti Ngata of Oregon. He's probably the best OG up for grabs, and I'm hoping the stupid Bidwill family wises up long enough to snatch him if he's available.
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Old 01-06-2006, 09:33 PM   #37
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Not really a big deal, Omar Jacobs declared today. As someone else pointed out a few weeks ago, his stock has plummeted this year. He was a sure fire 1st rounder at the start of the season, now he is 2nd to 3rd at best.
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Old 01-07-2006, 01:17 AM   #38
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Quote:
I have no idea why the Pats fans here are even thinking about getting AJ Hawk, who's a top 10 selection for sure.
I agree. And i really want to see the Pats loose just becaouse they win to much.

Last edited by Marc; 01-07-2006 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 01-07-2006, 01:20 AM   #39
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Top ten? After that game he had in the Fiesta Bowl he will be top five for sure.
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Old 01-07-2006, 01:56 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublee
Top ten? After that game he had in the Fiesta Bowl he will be top five for sure.
I'm not sure he's a lock for a top-five. Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Reggie Bush, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Jimmy Williams and Mario Williams might all be drafted ahead of him.

Assuming none of the top-five trade their picks, Hawk to Green Bay perhaps? Houston, New Orleans, Tennessee and NY Jets would be better other players. Young, Bush, Leinart and ??? in that order. Not sure if NY would want to draft a defensive player with so many gaping offensive holes. Maybe they take DeAngelo Williams to start ahead of Curtis Martin and Cedric Houston.
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Old 01-07-2006, 03:42 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublee
NFL Draft Scout doesn't even have Nance rated as a top five reciever. Kiper and Scouts, Inc. both have Hagan rated as a mid first rounder. This Nance character doesn't seem to recognized by anyone which leads me to believe he may be all style and no substance.

In that case Phil Sheridan must be a real idiot - since he's suggesting that the Eagles might "settle" for Nance if Holmes doesn't last 14 picks (and the Eagles haven't signed a free-agent WR - preferably Antwaan Randle El - before the draft).
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Old 01-07-2006, 04:54 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da12ken
Assuming none of the top-five trade their picks, Hawk to Green Bay perhaps?
LB is not the highest of the Packers' needs, but with Ted Thompson I think they'll draft whoever they think is the best player... and that might be Hawk. Pack's biggest needs are OGs, DT, and CB (still, even after drafting 3 losers in the past 2 years at CB). But they could use depth in general at all positions
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Old 01-07-2006, 09:03 PM   #43
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anyone likes Marcus Vick's chances at even being drafted? maybe him and Clarrett can get deals in the Arena league.
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Old 01-07-2006, 09:24 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdogsong
anyone likes Marcus Vick's chances at even being drafted? maybe him and Clarrett can get deals in the Arena league.
I don't see him being drafted. He barely has a sufficient amount of college experience, and with all of the issues he's had at Va Tech he probably isn't really appealing at all to most NFL teams.
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Old 01-07-2006, 10:07 PM   #45
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It didn't stop Adrian McPherson from getting drafted.
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