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Old 06-24-2008, 08:13 AM   #1
caloyzki25
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Default GARNETT, PIERCE or ALLEN who is the CORNERSTONE of this ERA of Boston's DYNASTY?

While many have argued about who should be the Finals MVP. Now many are questioning who will really carry the Boston Celtics to more Championship rings?

Is "The Truth" the main man?
Is KG the crucial factor for the Celtics' success?
Is Ray Allen shooting the lights out as crazy?

Pick the MAIN CORNERSTONE for BOSTON.
Always remember
THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!
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Old 06-24-2008, 09:56 AM   #2
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Dynasty??!??! As someone once said, "A lot of teams have won one in a row."

Let the Celtics win at least two before we even consider calling them a dynasty.
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:00 AM   #3
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Two years does not a dynasty make. You need to have continued success over several years a-la the Bulls and the Celtics back in the day. Even winning back-to-back is not an argument for a dynasty.

I'd say Pierce is really the heart and soul of that team. You didn't see anyone else throwing down the gauntlet against Kobe out there in that series.
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:45 PM   #4
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(Doublee)

Two years does not a dynasty make.

(SportsKing)

I agree. I just said let them win two before we even consider it.
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Old 06-24-2008, 09:05 PM   #5
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I wouldn't even start the 'dynasty' discussion after 2. Good teams come & go...

As far as who the main man is? Pierce but if KG was to not be there, it would be a moot point. KG's 'Pippen' to Pierce & nothing else would happen without him.
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:19 AM   #6
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I think it depends on how a team wins in those 2 seasons. If they barely won, maybe not, but if they were dominant, maybe one could consider it.
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Old 06-25-2008, 04:15 AM   #7
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Sure, in a dominant scenario like your comment describes, you'd be hard pressed not to project for the sake of discussion but my comment is based in the fact that I don't even remotely see anything near that scenario in the NBA. More like we'll see close hard fought series than any type of dominance.

Today's NBA athletes/teams aren't being built for Championships like they used to be. Besides that, the athletes of today aren't committed to putting in the amount of work necessary to win which is understandable since the league would rather spend their PR & ad campaigns to promote the individual. There's more than enough money out there to keep them satiated & not about sacrificing for the team.

The Celtics won basically cuz they had an older ex-player coach who saw what it took to win from his playing days, acquired older, more mature, players in KG & Allen who weren't in need of the glory or money any more, an older & more impressionable Pierce who's 'glory' days were behind him in Boston, & a hard working, hard nosed 6th man in Posey who'd been to the top before.

It wasn't some kind of magic formula but one that, if the Lakers would have also adopted early in the year, would have given the Celts a run for their money. Instead, it's more a Title by default. LA was a paper lion coming into this series. They fooled some who believed they actually were a force only by beating lesser opponents & a wounded, aging Spur team. Hardly the stuff of Kings.

On offense, the Celts looked tons better cuz of the lack of LA D, not that they were juggernauts. If the lane was closed off & timely switches were made, Pierce wouldn't have had some of the easy buckets. As the series went on, KG was being pushed further & further away from the rim by Gasol, no less. If they didn't leave Allen open so often, treys wouldn't have come in bunches either. Without that lackadaisical LA effort, the Celts have their share of offensive woes & stagnation.

So my impression is based more on the fact that this isn't the making of a dynasty as much as a watered down version of the NBA. I see no one out there that is dominant, talent laden, nor dedicated. The Celts did a nice job on D for most of the series but I'm not ready to talk about them repeating just yet. The Detroit series was nice but the Pistons are on a major down swing & LA just rolled over. The other series weren't the Celts brightest moments.

I'd wonder more about what Pop & the Spurs can do to get back in the mix, if possible. That's more a story than the Celts & misplaced Dynasty talk to me at this stage.
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:54 PM   #8
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Good post, Tarkus.

The Celtics are built to win now, and I highly doubt they'll win another. Their stars are aging and let's be honest, the motivation/desire is going to be less after you've already won it. They've peaked.
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Old 06-26-2008, 10:00 PM   #9
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I don't know. I think if they can retain the core of the bench they might be able squeeze out one more run as long as the Big 3 stay healthy.
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Old 06-29-2008, 08:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus View Post

Sure, in a dominant scenario like your comment describes, you'd be hard pressed not to project for the sake of discussion but my comment is based in the fact that I don't even remotely see anything near that scenario in the NBA. More like we'll see close hard fought series than any type of dominance.
There are a number of teams with the right tweaking could dominate, so your remote comment is a little off the mark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus

Today's NBA athletes/teams aren't being built for Championships like they used to be.
Actually, more teams try to build for championships now.
Boston, Detroit, Phoenix, New Orleans, and the Spurs all tried.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus

Besides that, the athletes of today aren't committed to putting in the amount of work necessary to win...
Based on what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus

There's more than enough money out there to keep them satiated & not about sacrificing for the team.
It seems Pierce, Allen and Garnett would challenge that contention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus

The Celtics won basically cuz they had an older ex-player coach who saw what it took to win from his playing days, acquired older, more mature, players in KG & Allen who weren't in need of the glory or money any more, an older & more impressionable Pierce who's 'glory' days were behind him in Boston, & a hard working, hard nosed 6th man in Posey who'd been to the top before.
You mean they built a team to win a championship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus

It wasn't some kind of magic formula but one that, if the Lakers would have also adopted early in the year, would have given the Celts a run for their money.
The Lakers made their moves to win and they did win two games against Boston. If Bynum isn't injured, who knows what would have happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus

Instead, it's more a Title by default. LA was a paper lion coming into this series. They fooled some who believed they actually were a force only by beating lesser opponents & a wounded, aging Spur team. Hardly the stuff of Kings.
The Celts didn't beat lesser opponents? Most thought the West was tougher than the East. I think you underestimate the Lakers accomplishment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus


So my impression is based more on the fact that this isn't the making of a dynasty as much as a watered down version of the NBA. I see no one out there that is dominant, talent laden, nor dedicated.
The Lakers with Bynum, the Hornets, the Spurs, the Suns are all teams that could dominate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus

I'd wonder more about what Pop & the Spurs can do to get back in the mix, if possible. That's more a story than the Celts & misplaced Dynasty talk to me at this stage.
The Spurs are more of a story than the Celts winning?

Are you a Spurs fan?

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Old 06-30-2008, 12:43 AM   #11
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Well, for a guy that came on & said he knew so much about sports & has the nic 'sportsking', this last post was weak & rife with 1 liners with no substance.

I'll lightly touch on it but next time ya gotta put in the effort. Plus, next time try not dissecting sentences out of context. It just muddies up the point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SportsKing View Post
There are a number of teams with the right tweaking could dominate, so your remote comment is a little off the mark.
& what teams would that be? Otherwise your comment is a little off mark. Mine's based on performance & not potential but I'd still like to hear who's so close to be able to dominate by just tweaks.

Quote:
Actually, more teams try to build for championships now.
Boston, Detroit, Phoenix, New Orleans, and the Spurs all tried.


They all try, they all don't come near.

I don't know how much NBA you follow but the Spurs & Pistons didn't try, they succeeded. However, between the 2, the Spurs put together a run of 4 trophies & close finishes in the last 9 or 10 seasons to be put in a 'dominance' convo which is where this particular convo originated from. The Pistons got to the top once & has played fairly tough for a few years but fell far short.

Besides Boston this year, none of the others are worthy of any kind of 'dominance' convo & even Boston is suspect due to a good regular season & ultimate Crown but a very choppy & inconsistent playoff showing. They still have a lot to prove next year. I wasn't impressed except in small doses.


Quote:
Based on what?
Quote:
It seems Pierce, Allen and Garnett would challenge that contention.
Quote:
You mean they built a team to win a championship?
See, these 1 liners mean nothing. In context, a simplified answer is easily read in my post>>>>>>Defense.

Teams that play good to great individual D are necessary but it's team defense that wins Championships. There's no glory in it nor is it what makes the highlight reels but the teams that play it are the teams that play for 48 minutes a game & end up Champs. The others conserve energy for the offensive end or just play decent D & go home empty handed.

If you wonder what the key to the Celt winning it all is, just listen to each & every interview from the players & you'll hear each & every one of them go on & on about the sacrifices they made & the constant practicing they went thru to raise their team defense. Them raising their defensive effort is the only reason they came out on top...period.

All those coach/player quotes should be pretty clear as to why even they believe D was the reason..


Quote:
The Lakers made their moves to win and they did win two games against Boston.


A trade for Gasol was necessary for the offensive end but they fell flat on their faces on the defensive end. That didn't need a 'move', just a dedication & commitment from the staff & the players which didn't happen. I'm surprised that PJ couldn't make that happen. Every one of his Championship teams played better team D than this one & he paid the price.

As far as them winning 2 games? That's also the reason why I originally posted that the Celts did a 'nice' job on D 'on the whole'. They weren't dominant by any stretch except at intervals. My post easily explained why I wouldn't talk about any kind of 'Dynasty' nor about dominance.


Quote:
If Bynum isn't injured, who knows what would have happened.
The exact same thing. He would have made no difference.

Quote:
The Celts didn't beat lesser opponents? Most thought the West was tougher than the East. I think you underestimate the Lakers accomplishment.


Once again, dissecting a sentence here & there has you acting as tho I said that. Re-read my original post & you'll see exactly what I said & I sure didn't spare any criticism when it came to bringing the Celts back down to Earth on their so-so playoffs. Hell, they were lucky to have made it out of the 1st 2 rounds.

As far as LA, who did they get challenged by? Denver? Utah? A wounded, aging Spur team that stumbled thru the last 1/4 of the season? The road to the Crown was more about defficiencies of teams than teams stifling another. Pretty much a sloppy playoffs as a whole.

The Lakers had a, once again, 'nice' run but anybody who knew basketball & not drinking the LA Koolaid, knew they were the highest seed with the weakest D. Based on a complete history of the sport, the teams that can ratchet up the D in playoff crunch time when baskets are hard to come by are always the victors. That's just the ABCs of playoff ball.

The Lakers just played to their limit...& lost. Not hard to understand.


Quote:
The Lakers with Bynum, the Hornets, the Spurs, the Suns are all teams that could dominate.
Dominate? :lol:

That's too funny...


Quote:
The Spurs are more of a story than the Celts winning?

Are you a Spurs fan?
This convo was about next year so where does the Celts winning this year come in?

Right now we have an NBA Champ that wasn't remotely near any of the 4 Spur Championship teams. A major storyline shaping up around the NBA is if the Spurs can get a little more athletic/younger on the wings to make another run. They are the one & only team for the last decade that still has their core of proven winners. I tend to like my Champions to play at a high level. Boston won this year but it wasn't a pretty sight.

By the way...are you a basketball fan?
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Old 07-01-2008, 08:32 PM   #12
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Lord...I don't know if I have the strength to deal with this.

Let me know if someone brings up Jamaal Wilkes, Norm Nixon or Dennis Johnson.
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Old 07-01-2008, 08:45 PM   #13
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:lol:

I know what you mean.

I give up...
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Old 07-01-2008, 09:14 PM   #14
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Yeah, I'm not tryin' to bust his balls

but

There are a number of teams with the right tweaking could dominate

Who the hell "tweaks" and then "dominates" outright? When the Lakers traded for Mychael Thompson in Febuary of 1987 they upgraded a dominant team but it wasn't as if they didn't have a shot to win without him. It is seen as the tipping point but that's been the case with several teams over history (see Detroit aftering bringing in Sheed).

Actually, more teams try to build for championships now.
Boston, Detroit, Phoenix, New Orleans, and the Spurs all tried.


Detroit's core has been together for years and the last notable addition was McDyess a few years back. Sure the Stuckey kid had a good rookie campaign but that's it. The Suns built their team for a title run years ago and then revamped it during the middle of this year after the previous formual proved to be futile. The Hornets simply drafted and acquired well. They're built to play for it all over the next 4 years...at the very least. The Spurs? I don't...huh?

The Lakers made their moves to win and they did win two games against Boston. If Bynum isn't injured, who knows what would have happened.

If "moves to win" means they acquired Pau I'm going to assume you didn't watch the Finals.

The Celts didn't beat lesser opponents? Most thought the West was tougher than the East. I think you underestimate the Lakers accomplishment.

Celts beat the Pistons. Lakers beat the Spurs. Wash.

Celts beat the Cavs. Lakers beat the Jazz. Favor Celts cuz of Lebron and the Cavs have been to The Show.

Celts beat the Hawks. Lakers beat the Nuggets. True the Nuggets have more talent but the Hawks are more of a team. Denver is a collection of headcases playing for the paycheck/personal glory while the Hawks are scrappy kids who were too naive to know fear. Advantage Celtics.

The Lakers with Bynum, the Hornets, the Spurs, the Suns are all teams that could dominate.

I'll give a pass on the Lakers and Bynum cuz we haven't seen 'em at full strength but the Hornets, Spurs and Suns all had their chance and failed so it's a moot point.

The Spurs are more of a story than the Celts winning?

In the grand scheme of basketball history...I'd say so. It's the future of the Spurs that is so intriguing. Post Jordan era saw Shaq and Duncan play for all 9 titles up until this year with the two bohemeths going 8-1 in the Big Show. NBA history has shown that when one dynasty ends there is a brief period of a team/few teams getting a ring. The only time in NBA history where this wasn't uniformly true was the 1970s...specifically the late 1970s. I'm definitely more interested in the true next dynasty or if the Spurs can revamp their outfit to carry on than the rise of a team that acquired 2 of its solid role guys in Febuary (Sammy C.) and March (P.J. Brown).
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Old 07-24-2008, 12:56 AM   #15
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Who was the 'heart' of the team? Kevin Garnett AND Paul Pierce

Finals MVP went to Pierce because of his history with the team.
Other than that, it was a draw. Both were equally important.

I think next year's finals will go substantially different if the two meet again, assuming Bryant, Bynum, and Gasol return and remain healthy all the way through.
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