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Old 07-10-2003, 08:27 PM   #1
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Question Manning, McNabb, or Vick

Here's an interesting dilemna, who is the best quarterback overall ?
Michael Vick
Peyton Manning
Donovan McNabb

Im going with Donovan, hes smart, mobile, and accurate
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Old 07-10-2003, 09:01 PM   #2
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Manning
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Old 07-10-2003, 09:43 PM   #3
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Vick
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Old 07-10-2003, 09:43 PM   #4
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None of the above?

Vick has proven nothing, IMO, except that he's wicked fast. Let him sit back there and throw a football off the snap, at least act like he read the defense. At this point, I'm not convinced he knows dick about what coverages are.

McNabb has proven that he can throw INTs at critical points, and that he can sit back and read a defense and NOT run the ball. The second point is in his favor, the first, not.

Manning has the same INT when the game matters problem as McNabb. I think he's the best QB of the three you've put forth here, but certainly, IMO, not the best QB on the field each and every Sunday.

I guess I don't fully understand your dilemma, and why we only get three choices.

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Old 07-10-2003, 10:11 PM   #5
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Manning

Its hard to choose because they run dif. kinds of offences
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Old 07-10-2003, 10:32 PM   #6
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Right now Manning is the best of those three.
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:06 AM   #7
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Finally a topic. Trust me I know the positon and play the positon. The answer is manning of course. He knows how to stand tall in the pocket like a man. Michael vick should be a running back or a kick return man and not an nfl quarterback. Like dave said he,ll never admount to dick. LFMAO Mcnabb still runs around to much and he never wins any big games neither. Did anyone notice that?? ha Manning plays the game the right way and will prove it in the end. The cream always rises to the crop.

t13 is out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-11-2003, 02:57 AM   #8
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A few observations: First, until one of these running quarterbacks wins a Super Bowl, I say they're overrated; plus, has McNabb ever had a 300-yard game in the NFL? I don't think he has. And Vick's lack of size means that bat-downs will always be a problem for him, and also makes him more vulnerable to injury than bigger quarterbacks.

Yes, Peyton Manning's travails in the postseason are well-documented, but then again, both Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson had the same "problem" until very recently; and John Elway was how old before he finally broke through and won the big one?

So my vote is for P-Man.
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Old 07-11-2003, 03:10 AM   #9
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Anthony, interesting point about runners never winning at all, but I do think mobile QBs are the wave of the future. Of course, a run-happy QB will ALWAYS be a liability, but I suspect that, as athletes over time get better and better, you will see QBs that can read defenses, stay in the pocket, but when they ARE forced to scramble, can do so not only ably, but with the acumen of an RB. I don't think those days are too far off, and pretty soon, if you're QB is strictly pocket with little or no running ability, that will be the liability.
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:33 PM   #10
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Oh lord help me dear chirst T13 is back god please I'm begging ya!

ANyway Vick. He's lighting fast he makes GOOD passes he rarely throws a pick I think he went like the first 7 games last year without a pick.
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Old 07-11-2003, 03:45 PM   #11
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I think we've been down this road, but I'd just like to take a moment to point out that scrambling QBs have won the Super Bowl, on several occasions.

I've conveniently defined a scrambling QB for my purposes as a guy who gains over 100 yds rushing on the season. There are four men (that I found) in Super Bowl history who have gained over 100 yards rushing for the season while being the team's leading (or occasionally #2, but rarely) passer.

They are:
Terry Bradshaw
'74: 6th in rushing attempts & 5th in yardage for the Steelers. Also, #2 yardage passer, behind the could-have-been-great Joe Gilliam.
'75: 5th in attempts, 4th in yardage
In '77 & '78, Bradshaw failed to exceed 100 yards rushing but was within 20 yards each year.

Joe Montana : In Super Bowl winning years, Montana finished in team rushing this way:
81: 6th attempts, 6th yardage, 106 yds, 2TDs
84: 3rd attempts, 5th yardage, 118 yds, 2TDs
88: 3rd attempts, 4th yardage, 132 yds, 3TDs
89: 3rd attempts, 3rd yardage, 227 yds, 3TDs

John Elway
'97 2nd attempts, 3rd yardage, by only 4 yards
'98, while 3rd in attempts, he didn't exceed 100 yards rushing

Steve Young
'94 3rd attempts, 3rd yardage, 293, 7TDs

Elway and Young are the prototypical scramblers, because you remember some of their runs vividly, and they obviously ran by design.

Montana, and to a lesser extent, Bradshaw, get left off the list of scramblers because we remember their throws. But, Montana was extraordinary in the pocket, knew when to take off, and obviously did so even later in his career. Whether he felt the rush of Young behind him (sometimes ahead of him) is a fair question. At the end of the day, though, these four guys all have rings, and all were 100+-yard rushers in years they won the Super Bowl.

Should you think the 100-yard threhold too easy or arbitrary, then go with the team rusher rank. Bradshaw falls out, having not been better than 4th in yardage gained for his teams. But '88 & '89 Montana finished in the top 4 of the Niners' rushing scheme, while Young was 3rd in rushing yardage in the years the two Niners QBs won Super Bowls. And Elway was third in rushing for the Broncos in their first title year.

And remember, this is just Super Bowl era stuff.

(Note: For some ungodly reason, my source didn't have rushing stats for the '96 Packers; I would be unsurprised to find that Favre was a leading rusher for that Packers' squad, bringing the number to five.)

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Old 07-11-2003, 07:13 PM   #12
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Thumbs up running QBs

Dave,

Good points. Elway and Young were classic scramblers early in their careers, and they could still move when they won Super Bowls. Montana won Super Bowl XIX by scrambling all over the Dolphins. His running was probably almost as important in that game as his passing. Completely forgot about that until you brought him up.

Theismann was a really good scrambler, too: over 100 yards every year from '77 until he left the game, 5.1 career average, and fast enough that he was used as a punt returner his first two years in the league. Roger Staubach ran for more than 200 yards in a season five times, scored 20 TDs on the ground, and retired with a 5.5 rushing average.

Jeff Hostetler was a good runner, and he had 190 yards with a 4.9 average and 2 TDs in 1990 even though he didn't play all of the season. Jim McMahon had 252 yards and 3 TDs on the ground, with a 5.4 average, in 1985.

Regarding Favre, he rushed for over 100 yards every year from 1992-2000. In '96, he had 136 yards, good for third on the team, although he only averaged 2.8 per carry.

Even if you want to be really stingy, though, Young and Theismann have to count, and Elway, Hostetler, Montana, and Staubach probably should, too.
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Old 07-11-2003, 09:17 PM   #13
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I completely forgot about Theismann, Brad. Didn't even look up his stats.

I skipped Staubach and Hostetler due to time constraints.

One of things that's really interesting about glancing at these numbers is this: Montana's rushing numbers weren't terribly different than Bradshaw's ten years on, yet Bradshaw never finished (in a SB year, leastways) better than 5th on the team in rushing. Meanwhile, Montana runs for 190 yards and is good for third on the team. The running game definitely changed, fairly dramatically, in a reasonably short time.

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Old 07-12-2003, 04:11 AM   #14
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Let's just say that there is a big difference between a scrambling quarterback and a running quarterback - and lest I be accused of making the distinction based on race - Bobby Douglass (if anybody remembers him) was white, and he was most definitely a running and not a scrambling quarterback (so was Cliff Stoudt, who's also white).
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Old 07-12-2003, 01:14 PM   #15
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I guess running would be classified as gaining at least 300 to 500 yards rushing during the season at the quarterback position. With that being the case, only Steve Mcnair has reached a Superbowl with those kind of running numbers off the top of my head, and he of course lost.

Mcnabb has faired decently in the playoffs, Vick has only been there once, Kordell has had his troubles in the playoffs, Cunningham never went to the big show, Culpepper has only faired well in one game in the playoffs really etc etc....

They only guy that might be considered a running quarterback, as Anthony suggested, would be Steve Young who had close to 300 yards in 1994.

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