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Old 06-11-2004, 11:38 AM   #1
Rawdog
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Default Scott Hatteberg

As an Oakland A's fan I just wanted to post about Scotty. He is a legitimate All-Star candidate right now. He doesn't get the play of Giambi or David Ortiz because he's not on the East Coast, but he deserves to be in the discussion with them for an All-Star berth. He has really been raking this year and has stepped it up since Chavvy went down.
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Old 06-11-2004, 08:01 PM   #2
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^^^I don't know if I'd go as far as putting him as an All-Star, but he's really burst out of the gates this year and I'm happy to see it as Beane loves the guy. Let's hope he keeps it going through the remainder of the year.

on a side note, Crosby's been solid the past month.
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Old 06-12-2004, 04:05 PM   #3
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Default You're right

You are absolutely correct El Jefe about Crosby. He has really picked it up lately. I think he leads just about every category for rookies.
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Old 06-12-2004, 04:37 PM   #4
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Scott Hatteberg has been a solid, but not spectacular, player for quite a while. His stats have never been eye-popping, but he is a winner. He seldom complains about his assignments, nor does he cause problems in the clubhouse. He is a role-player and understands his roles. He can catch, play 1B, some in the OF, and DH.
Crosby looks like he's more comfortable than he was in April. He looks like he realizes that he belongs in the bigs.
Welcome to the boards, Rawdog. We appreciate new thoughts and opinions here.
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Old 06-14-2004, 02:55 PM   #5
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My favorite Scott Hatteberg bit o' trivia is this:

Only guy in the major leagues to hit into a triple play and hit a grand slam in the same game.

During his last season in Boston, against the Rangers, if memory serves, he hit a into a triple play started by ARod with runners on, and the Sox trailing. Probably in the 4th or something.

Next at-bat, bases juiced, he puts the ball in the Rangers bullpen which rallies the Sox to a win over the lowly Rangers.

He was always one of Jimy Williams' favorite players, too, but couldn't find everyday room for him.

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Old 06-15-2004, 01:36 AM   #6
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Well, here are some stats for AL 1st basemen at this point in the season:

D. Ortiz 13 Hr, 54 RBI, .286 avg
S. Hatteberg 8 Hr, 39 RBI, .318 avg
P. Konerko 14 HR, 39 RBI, .286 avg
K. Harvey 8 HR, 27 RBI, .358 avg
T. Martinez 11 HR, 32 RBI, .273 avg
J. Giambi 10 HR, 28 RBI, .250 avg

I know you can't always judge just by stats. But, the system they have now for all star voting needs amending in some way, just because it has become too much of a popularity contest. Remember when Cal Ripkin would get voted in every year, even if he was hitting .190 or something.

I think Hatteberg has good stats, but at this point I would give the starting nod to Ortiz. Hatteberg is a great player, and to not mention him in an All Star discussion would be unfair. Although, I really hope that Ken Harvey, the Royals first basemen who gets little recognition, will get some votes as well. I guess the question is: is it better to have a significantly better average with less hr and rbis, or a mediocre average with high production in hrs and rbis. I think that people tend to vote for All Stars with the latter.

Last edited by franky; 06-15-2004 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 06-15-2004, 05:07 PM   #7
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Ahh.. See, franky.. you and smart baseball fans would vote for Ortiz as a first baseman...

But, you'd have to WRITE HIM IN. That's right. He's not on the ballot. The morons running the game (and fan voting) have Kevin Millar in the AllStar balloting at first base. Yes, the same Kevin Millar who, while in a slooow recovery from a terrible April, isn't worth an all-star spot, even kind of.

You can vote for Hatteberg without the bother of writing anyone in, though, if you're so inclined.


Meanwhile, two stats you left out of the discussion that the savvy fan might consider, OPS and Runs Scored, are might similar.

Hatteberg 30 R, .900 OPS
Ortiz 29 R, .883 OPS

Hatteberg has an OBP near .400, which is nutty good. His ability to reach base was one of the qualities that Jimy liked so much.

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Old 06-15-2004, 06:02 PM   #8
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Dave-

You bring up a good point about the voting. Often guys who are in the lineup might not be included on the ballots because of one reason or another (change in position, filled in for another player due to injury, etc).

I didn't even realize that Ortiz was left off the ballot, as I haven't voted yet. Another reason to change the system of All Star voting. Don't get me wrong. I still love the idea of fans getting to vote, as the All Star Game should be for the fans. But, there is too much weight on popularity and notoriety rather than actual stats. There should be some kind of leverage that helps players who are having a great season, but aren't as much of a household name, have a chance to compete for a starting spot as well.
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Old 06-15-2004, 06:33 PM   #9
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I've complained in another thread, so I'll keep it short, but your point about the All star fan voting being one of popularity and not production is made all too clear when the voting at SS is Jeter #1 and Nomar #2. Nomar has played in all of five games this season. And Jeter (who's slowly picking up his pace) has sucked this season.

Folks like Michael Young (Tex) or Carlos Guillen(Det) have much more deserving numbers... but fans are stupid sometimes.

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Old 06-15-2004, 07:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by MountaineerDave
I've complained in another thread, so I'll keep it short, but your point about the All star fan voting being one of popularity and not production is made all too clear when the voting at SS is Jeter #1 and Nomar #2. Nomar has played in all of five games this season. And Jeter (who's slowly picking up his pace) has sucked this season.

Folks like Michael Young (Tex) or Carlos Guillen(Det) have much more deserving numbers... but fans are stupid sometimes.

Dave
Yeah, there is no way in the world either Jeter or Garciaparra should even be in the All Star Game, much less starting. So, that's a good example of "misvoting" by fans. Micheal Young and Carlos Guillen should be one and two in voting as far as I'm concerned.

I honestly think sometimes fans are just unaware who is having a great season, and so they pick a player they like or that they think is having a great season.

They should have players stats right next to them in the ballot box when fans are voting, but that is probably impossible as their stats change everyday.
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Old 06-15-2004, 09:44 PM   #11
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I would argue for two immediate changes to fan-based All-Star voting:

1. Delay the opening of the ballots until late May/early June.
2. Instead of listing a player from each team at every position, list only those players who've distinguished themselves over the first 6-8 weeks of the season, limit of 8 or 10 players.

If fans want to vote for Jeter or Nomar (both of whom would be left off the ballot in my world), they can write them in.

Voters, be they for sports all star games or for political positions, are ultimately lazy, and will most of the time vote from among the choices provided, recognizing that a write-in candidate stands little chance of making it.

Of course, folks like Nomar and Jeter could conceivably have a pretty sizable write-in campaign. You combat that with the idea you had, implemented thusly:

For each player, it might difficult to put a stat by him, but you could provide a ranking by position of a couple vital stats: BA, OBP, OPS, Fielding%, #errors, and the like. Whatever smattering of stats that make sense, perhaps even changing the stats by position, as long as the stats make sense for the position. That is, you list the rank of each 1B in the following categories: HR, BA, OPS, and RBI because 1B is, essentially, an offensive position usually wanting production with the bat. A SS might have BA, Fielding %, DPs started, #Errors, RBIs, because SS is a defensive position, filled by only the rare explosive bat.

Real baseball people (that is, stats geeks and long-time baseball fans) would be able to put this together in a way that makes sense, especially by late May.

In the same way that players work toward season-long goals, like batting titles and such, in September, you could have them fighting it out for a spot on the AllStar ballot.

As long as the All Star Game "means something," something has to be done to keep the fans from f'ing up the darn World Series, after all.

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Old 06-17-2004, 12:20 PM   #12
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I don't mind seeing the All-Star game being a popularity contest for the most part. Well, I did until the All-Star game meant something. That rule as stated so many times before makes this game more than an exhibition which is what it should exactly be.

If it were only an exhibition, what's wrong with having the fans see who they want to play? I agree Carlos Guillen and Michael Young deserve to be there, but this is the fans game and do the fans want to see Guillen and Young starting? No...

I haven't voted yet, and I will most likely vote for Michael Young at AL SS, Ken Harvey at AL 1B, Johnny Estrada at NL C, etc. Who deserves to go. But I'm not a casual fan, I'm more, and I would rather see the deserved go.
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Old 06-17-2004, 04:30 PM   #13
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Dave--

I like the idea you mentioned about ranking players in specific categories. At least it would be a ranking a voter could look at prior to deciding, and hell, maybe they would even take time to do some research to see who actually is having the better season. That's a big assumption on my part, however, and I don't think it will happen.

But, I can dream, can't I?
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Old 06-17-2004, 07:34 PM   #14
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As long as the popularity contest controls the location of the World Series (to a degree), there MUST be tighter control of the popularity contest.
I mean, last year, when it was close for a couple of Red Sox players, I used ten of my ballots just to help out local nine players. My wife used all 25 of her ballots to that effort.
That's just silly.

Besides, one of my biggest gripes is that in this popularity contest, fans have NO SAY whatever in who pitches these games.

I think it's quite fair to say that fans would choose the right guy to start the for the NL. The AL is a little tighter, pitching-wise, but fans would likely be close.

I just don't completely understand why I can't help Torre select his pitching staff for the All Star Game, though.

franky-thanks. I kinda liked the idea, too. Just occurred to me when you were wishing they could list stats.

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Old 06-17-2004, 09:13 PM   #15
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Two years later.... I post again... hahahah.

Hatteberg isn't an All-Star. He's simply better than he used to be.

Whoever wins voting at first base (better not be Giambi, but it probably will be) better step aside and let Big Papi start, because the man deserves it.

My 2 cents.

PS - voting sucks, shouldnt even be up to the fans, because the fans are stupid... the fellow players should vote for the starters.
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