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Old 12-02-2008, 01:54 PM   #46
KevinBeane
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Not to get in the way of this argment, but a Google search reveals that the "Office of President-Elect" was also utilized, at least, by Bush I.

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=5&gl=us
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:55 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinBeane View Post
Not to get in the way of this argment, but a Google search reveals that the "Office of President-Elect" was also utilized, at least, by Bush I.

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=5&gl=us
That guy never worked a day in his life, so he had to make up titles...
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:03 PM   #48
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George HW Bush was a pilot in WW2, Fresh. He worked harder than you do.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:10 PM   #49
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George HW Bush was a pilot in WW2, Fresh. He worked harder than you do.
Wow, I have to explain everything to some people...

I was clearly being sarcastic Cat...

I was making fun of buckeye.

He said that Obama "made up that title" because he "never worked a day in his life."

I was pointing out the absurdity of his comment...

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Old 12-02-2008, 02:12 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Please, let me know where I insulted you.



I considered health care to be part of "protection." I consider health care to be part of infastructure. I consider health care to be a right, not a privledge that can be purchased.

I think that kid born into poverty should have access to the same procedures as Ted Stevens.

Call me crazy, but I don't view health care as a comodity.

Until you provide me with a solution that provides equal access to health care for everyone, you will not convince me.
Fresh, I consider healthcare to be a "right", but disagree with you as to how to provide it. As I said, I agreed with McCain's proposal to give everyone $5K to buy their own insurance, allowing insurance companies to continue being the payors for healthcare. I do not think we need to create more government red-tape and hoops to jump through to get to see a dr that we want to see. I do not see healthcare as a commodity, but it is not a governmental "handout" either.
This brings me to my solution to all the problems that we currently have. Give every family in the country the difference between their adjusted gross income and $100K for each year up to 10 years and discontinue all welfare programs. It would save the government a lot of money overall and allow people to control their own destinies, as opposed to relying on the government for anything.
In less than 5 years, most people that are "poor" will be poor again though.
As to you insulting me, you do so by insisting that you are right and I am wrong, just because I go with my experience in a field rather than listening to "talking heads".
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:14 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Wow, I have to explain everything to some people...

I was clearly being sarcastic Cat...

I was making fun of buckeye.

He said that Obama "made up that title" because he "never worked a day in his life."

I was pointing out the absurdity of his comment...

And I was pointing out the insulting nature of most of your posts.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:20 PM   #52
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Fresh, I consider healthcare to be a "right", but disagree with you as to how to provide it. As I said, I agreed with McCain's proposal to give everyone $5K to buy their own insurance, allowing insurance companies to continue being the payors for healthcare.
Such a plan would leave millions uninsured. Such a plan would still give preferential treatment to those with money. Therefore, such a plan still treats health care as a commodity.

That "credit" would be created by raising taxes... Isn't that a bit ridiculous?

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As to you insulting me, you do so by insisting that you are right and I am wrong, just because I go with my experience in a field rather than listening to "talking heads".
So disagreeing with you is now an insult?

Sorry, my views insult you...
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:21 PM   #53
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And I was pointing out the insulting nature of most of your posts.
No, you misunderstood my post.

My sarcasm was meant to highlight the fact that George Bush Sr. HAS worked very hard in his life.

The only person I was insulting was the poster who insulted my family - people he has never met...
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:28 PM   #54
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uch a plan would leave millions uninsured. Such a plan would still give preferential treatment to those with money. Therefore, such a plan still treats health care as a commodity.
I don't think any plan is going to do away with preferential treatment to those with money. I don't think that is necessarily the bad thing, just that those without money should receive better treatment.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:33 PM   #55
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I don't think any plan is going to do away with preferential treatment to those with money. I don't think that is necessarily the bad thing, just that those without money should receive better treatment.
In most universal health care systems, every person has access to any procedure that they need.

Sure, there will always be ways to "cheat" the system with money. But legally speaking, universal health care provides the same care to every person, regardless of income.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:47 PM   #56
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I'd say the necessity of providing the same care to every person, regardless of income is where we'd disagree on healthcare. I'm just not entirely convinced that if universal healthcare was done in this regard that it would be as successful as it would need to be. A lot of the flaws from universal healthcare come from this idea of same care for everyone. I don't think that needs to be the end goal for universal healthcare and to some degree provides the roadblock for getting anything done.

The biggest thing is that investing all this money into healthcare, it has to be done responsibly and we can take the elements of the free markets and competition that work and put that behind a system that will make sure that everyone has a level of coverage that we can look at as respectable.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:53 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by HibachiDG View Post
I'd say the necessity of providing the same care to every person, regardless of income is where we'd disagree on healthcare. I'm just not entirely convinced that if universal healthcare was done in this regard that it would be as successful as it would need to be. A lot of the flaws from universal healthcare come from this idea of same care for everyone. I don't think that needs to be the end goal for universal healthcare and to some degree provides the roadblock for getting anything done.

The biggest thing is that investing all this money into healthcare, it has to be done responsibly and we can take the elements of the free markets and competition that work and put that behind a system that will make sure that everyone has a level of coverage that we can look at as respectable.
Yeah, we do disagree there.

"Respectable" coverage for all would be a start in my view, but I simply can't view health care as a commodity that can be purchased.

I honestly view it the same way I view national security or law enforcement. If I'm getting mugged, I deserve as much protection, from the police, as Bill Gates.

The same should be said for health care, at least in my view.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:56 PM   #58
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Fresh, you obviously do not understand how healthcare is adminstered, so I will give you a basic primer. The way things work now, providers submit bills for payment to those receiving services. If they have insurance, the insurer pays their portion of the bill. If not, the recipient is liable for the entire amount. Under McCain's proposal, everyone would have received $5k/year to buy insurance from the carrier of their choice. No governmental agencies would have been required to set this program up.
Under your system, as I understand it, the government would be the payor for the services rendered, requiring additional agencies to supply such funding. It would cause an industry to go out of business, as health insurers would no longer have any business.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:59 PM   #59
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Under McCain's proposal, everyone would have received $5k/year to buy insurance from the carrier of their choice. No governmental agencies would have been required to set this program up.
Yes, and he would tax your income to create the pool of money for the tax credit.

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Under your system, as I understand it, the government would be the payor for the services rendered, requiring additional agencies to supply such funding. It would cause an industry to go out of business, as health insurers would no longer have any business.
Yes, profitting off the sick would end in my ideal system.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:59 PM   #60
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As to healthcare being a "commodity" again, I believe you have a mistaken definition here. Commodities are things that are essentially identical, IE, kernels of corn or soybeans. It is difficult for the layperson to distinguish one from another.
Healthcare is unique to the recipient.
As to McCain's tax package, I disagreed with that, and did not vote for the man.
Also, there is an industry in existance that does what you want the government to do. Why change it? The insurance industry is not perfect, but is far better than the government would be, IMO.
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Last edited by catman; 12-02-2008 at 03:06 PM.
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