Big 10 from 11 to 12?

[Andrew Jones]

Talks are starting for the Big Ten to expand once again. Who do you think is the best fit for the Big Ten? I've heard Pitt, Missouri, Iowa St. Rutgers, Syracuse, Notre Dame and University of Chicago.
Obviously there are advantages and disadvantages to all of these. Taking a Big 12 team (Iowa St. or Mizzou) means the Big 12 will need to expand as well, though they have a worthy candidate for expansion themselves in TCU.
Notre Dame is an independent (at least in football) but they've been reluctant for quite some time to join.
University of Chicago seems like a terrible idea seeing as they'd have to build up their sports programs considerably before being ready to truly compete.
Rutgers, Pitt and Syracuse seem ok.
What do you think?

[Anthony]

Doesn't Notre Dame play like half of the Big Ten teams every year already?

I've long advocated for the Irish to join the Big Ten - and have even proposed various divisional formats for an expanded conference that includes them, one of them a revolutionary plan that carves up the conference into three four-team divisions and provides for conference semifinal playoffs (involving the three division winners and a wild card) as well as a title game.

On the other hand, stealing a team from an existing BCS conference would be problematic on many levels and should not even be considered.

[doublee]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Doesn't Notre Dame play like half of the Big Ten teams every year already?

They do, in football, but, the huge stumbling block for Notre Dame joining the Big Ten is the fact they play in the Big East for most other sports. Rumor has it that when BC, Va Tech, and Miami bolted for the ACC the Big East instituted a $10 million buy out for the remaining schools if they wanted to jump ship.

I've long advocated for the Irish to join the Big Ten - and have even proposed various divisional formats for an expanded conference that includes them, one of them a revolutionary plan that carves up the conference into three four-team divisions and provides for conference semifinal playoffs (involving the three division winners and a wild card) as well as a title game.

That is really not feasible given the limits the NCAA puts on D-I programs and how many games that can play. It would mean having to drop an out-of-conference game, which would be bad for college football as I doubt those schools are dropping their cupcakes from the schedule. It also adds an extra layer for teams to trip up and miss out on a BCS game so I doubt they are going to be terribly interested in agreeing to something like that.

On the other hand, stealing a team from an existing BCS conference would be problematic on many levels and should not even be considered.

Yeah, it caused a lot of hard feelings when the ACC grabbed teams from the Big East.

Andrew, I had not heard Chicago University is even an option and I seriously doubt that has any teeth to it. You don't seriously believe the Big Ten is going to have any interest in fooling with a D-III program do you? D-III schools do not offer scholarships and the main reason they do so is they do not have the finances to support a D-I program. The Big Ten is going to want a school that is going to hit the ground running and not take 10 years to get up to speed with the rest of the conference.

The schools being bandied about seem to be Louisville, Cincinnati, Pitt, Rutgers, and Syracuse.

I do not see Syracuse jumping ship, they were not overly interested in the ACC and I doubt the Big Ten is that much more of an attractive conference to them.

Cincy is too close to Ohio State's backyard and they would probably lobby to keep them out.

Pitt and Rutgers seem to be the two schools being mentioned that have the most traction right now. Pitt makes sense as they are wedged in between Penn State and Ohio State so they have built in rivalries there and both their football and basketball programs are up to snuff with other Big Ten programs. Rutgers would give them a presence in the New York market.

I have a hard time seeing any Big 12 teams making the jump as there is no real incentive for them to do so. As it is right now the Big 12 is considered the superior league in both football and basketball so moving to the Big Ten is not really a step up for a Big 12 school.

Ultimately, they are probably going to have to look at one of the mid-major conferences like the MAC, Conference USA, WAC, or Mountain West and grab one of their better schools if they want to expand.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by doublee

They do, in football, but, the huge stumbling block for Notre Dame joining the Big Ten is the fact they play in the Big East for most other sports. Rumor has it that when BC, Va Tech, and Miami bolted for the ACC the Big East instituted a $10 million buy out for the remaining schools if they wanted to jump ship.

$10 million? They could get that from the collection boxes at the churches!

That is really not feasible given the limits the NCAA puts on D-I programs and how many games that can play. It would mean having to drop an out-of-conference game, which would be bad for college football as I doubt those schools are dropping their cupcakes from the schedule. It also adds an extra layer for teams to trip up and miss out on a BCS game so I doubt they are going to be terribly interested in agreeing to something like that.

But what if there is no longer a BCS? And if they would add as many as four games for a given team in a 12- or 16-team playoff, what's one more for two (and if the winner is good enough to earn a first-round bye in a 12-team playoff, one) out of the 100-plus teams of the FBS, which rather obviously would need to be renamed if a playoff is ever implemented?

Yeah, it caused a lot of hard feelings when the ACC grabbed teams from the Big East.

Andrew, I had not heard Chicago University is even an option and I seriously doubt that has any teeth to it. You don't seriously believe the Big Ten is going to have any interest in fooling with a D-III program do you? D-III schools do not offer scholarships and the main reason they do so is they do not have the finances to support a D-I program. The Big Ten is going to want a school that is going to hit the ground running and not take 10 years to get up to speed with the rest of the conference.

The schools being bandied about seem to be Louisville, Cincinnati, Pitt, Rutgers, and Syracuse.

I do not see Syracuse jumping ship, they were not overly interested in the ACC and I doubt the Big Ten is that much more of an attractive conference to them.

Cincy is too close to Ohio State's backyard and they would probably lobby to keep them out.

Pitt and Rutgers seem to be the two schools being mentioned that have the most traction right now. Pitt makes sense as they are wedged in between Penn State and Ohio State so they have built in rivalries there and both their football and basketball programs are up to snuff with other Big Ten programs. Rutgers would give them a presence in the New York market.

I have a hard time seeing any Big 12 teams making the jump as there is no real incentive for them to do so. As it is right now the Big 12 is considered the superior league in both football and basketball so moving to the Big Ten is not really a step up for a Big 12 school.

Ultimately, they are probably going to have to look at one of the mid-major conferences like the MAC, Conference USA, WAC, or Mountain West and grab one of their better schools if they want to expand.

What about Temple?

[Andrew Jones]

I completely agree on University of Chicago being a terrible idea, but it has been tossed around, mostly to be driven into the ground because it is such a stupid idea. I think smaller conferences could be a possibility, but the teams you'd want to see join are just a touch too far away, Utah, Boise St. BYU etc. I think there'd be a decent possibility for South Dakota St. to join up, but they've just finished moving from DII to DI and making another move to the elite would be tough this soon I think.
I understand that a Big 12 team switching would cause some problems, but Iowa St. stands out to me as being a very good fit and filling the gap in the Big 12 would be a lot easier than the Big Ten with TCU and Houston looking pretty dang good, not to mention Utah, BYU and Boise St. would be closer to those schools and better fits in the Big 12 (in my opinion) anyway.

[doublee]

Originally Posted by Anthony

But what if there is no longer a BCS? And if they would add as many as four games for a given team in a 12- or 16-team playoff, what's one more for two (and if the winner is good enough to earn a first-round bye in a 12-team playoff, one) out of the 100-plus teams of the FBS, which rather obviously would need to be renamed if a playoff is ever implemented?

The BCS has little to do with it. The conference championship structure is all regulated at the NCAA level. The NCAA is who decided that a conference needs 12 teams to have a championship game.

If the Big Ten wanted to do such a thing as you propose they would have to get it approved by the NCAA and that is not going to happen without other conferences getting behind it.

What about Temple?

The Big East kicked Temple out when they refused to join the conference for basketball preferring to remain in the A-10.

[doublee]

Originally Posted by Andrew Jones

I completely agree on University of Chicago being a terrible idea, but it has been tossed around, mostly to be driven into the ground because it is such a stupid idea. I think smaller conferences could be a possibility, but the teams you'd want to see join are just a touch too far away, Utah, Boise St. BYU etc. I think there'd be a decent possibility for South Dakota St. to join up, but they've just finished moving from DII to DI and making another move to the elite would be tough this soon I think.
I understand that a Big 12 team switching would cause some problems, but Iowa St. stands out to me as being a very good fit and filling the gap in the Big 12 would be a lot easier than the Big Ten with TCU and Houston looking pretty dang good, not to mention Utah, BYU and Boise St. would be closer to those schools and better fits in the Big 12 (in my opinion) anyway.

The reason why I think it might have to come from a smaller conference is there is no incentive for a Big 12 school to join the Big Ten. What does Iowa St. get out of the Big Ten they do not already get from the Big 12?

The reason the ACC was able to poach the Big East teams is they were then able to turn around and get better TV deals for football and create a conference championship game, something the Big East still does not have, generating even more revenue for the conference.

The Big 12 already has a conference championship game and probably has TV deals comparable to, if not better than, the Big Ten as it pertains to football and basketball. I just have a hard time seeing there being an overwhelming financial incentive for a Big 12 team to jump ship.

This is why they will have to try and poach a Big East team or settle on a school like a TCU, BYU, or Boise that would get some sort of benefit from joining the Big Ten, mainly being in a BCS conference that, in all likelihood, gets a shot at the Championship if it finishes undefeated.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by doublee

The BCS has little to do with it. The conference championship structure is all regulated at the NCAA level. The NCAA is who decided that a conference needs 12 teams to have a championship game.

If the Big Ten wanted to do such a thing as you propose they would have to get it approved by the NCAA and that is not going to happen without other conferences getting behind it.

Maybe this is the horse-racing enthusiast in me coming out: Every time exotic wagering has been expanded - from exactas to trifectas in the late '70s, then on to superfectas, and, most recently, the "Super High Five," I've always speculated on carrying it one step further; and sure enough I'm all over the horse-racing forums these days trying to drum up support for a new "Six-Pack" wager, calling for the bettor to select the first six finishers in one race (not to be confused with the Pick Six, which is won by selecting the winners of six different races).

The Big East kicked Temple out when they refused to join the conference for basketball preferring to remain in the A-10.

Ah, but who has had the last laugh with that?

And what does Iowa State get from moving to the Big 10? How about a meaningful rivalry with Iowa? (In the same vein, I support an eventual NFL expansion team for San Antonio, and its placement in the NFC East, to give the Cowboys something they desperately need - a natural geographical rival).

[Andrew Jones]

I guess I don't know too much about Big 12 football deals with TV, but the Big Ten has its own network. Perhaps that does nothing for money, but I think there would be a higher exposure rate for Iowa St. to main areas of recruiting for sports obviously beyond football.
I think the reason I mention a Big 12 team mostly is because I see the Big 12 benefitting from removing a team that is a touch lower in caliber than one they could potentially add, being a TCU or Houston.
I'm saying the incentive might not need to be there for Iowa St. It perhaps should simply become necessity. Yes, that is unlikely to ever happen, but I think in the end it might make everybody happy (exception perhaps Iowa St.). The Big 12 gets better and the Big 10 gets another team.

[themush]

Pitt is the only viable option. ND isn't going to give up that NBC $$$. Nor should they.

Think about this though if it were Pitt the divisions would geographically look like this...

WEST
Minny
Wisky
Iowa
Illinois
Northwestern
Purdue

EAST
Michigan
OSU
MSU
PSU
Indiana

That ain't gonna happen...

[DETMURDS]

Notre Dame would be the #1 team to add to the Big 10, other considerations could be:

Iowa State
Cincinnati
Toledo
or even
Central Michigan?

[doublee]

Ohio State will do everything in its power to keep Cincy out of the Big Ten. I don't see what they gain by adding Toledo or Central Michigan. It would make more sense to grab a team in a market where they currently do not have a strong presence rather than add a school that overlaps their current markets.

[Marc]

New fuel to the fire, JoePa's comments: Joe Paterno drops a bomb on Big Ten call - CBSSports.com

Though you can't trust anything a senile geezer says. :lol:

My vote is NO to expansion.

[doublee]

Whether we like it or not it is inevitable. There is too much money to be gained by doint it.

[NAR(cotics)]

I hope they get Notre Dame, I want to see my favorite college football team finally in a conference, and the Big 10 has at least SOME prestige, even with all those negative losses to the SEC.