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Old 11-02-2001, 03:40 PM   #1
Nate
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Default Contraction of Twins likely

Unfortunately, it seems that if baseball moves forward with its contraction plan, the Minnesota Twins will likely be one of the teams. Minnesota lawyers are working with lawyers in Florida, where the Marlins and Devil Rays are also subject to contraction. Catch the full story: ESPN Report: Only Pohlad can keep Twins afloat
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Old 11-02-2001, 09:03 PM   #2
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Yeah, I saw this. Kind of a surprise, actually, as this young team showed some promise for at least a half of a year. They had the best record in baseball for a month! I expected Montreal and Tampa Bay (or Florida), but not this. Also, I read Jesse Ventura is furious over this.
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Old 11-03-2001, 12:09 AM   #3
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If the Twins dissolve or even move.... I'm serious -- I'm, I'm done with professional sports.... I've had it with greedy players and owners and leagues, all at the fans cost... the leagues getting too big for their own good. What's even the POINT? There is none! Seriously, if this happens, I will cut professional sports out of my life. Probably no one will care, but at least I'll have more study time.
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Old 11-03-2001, 01:14 AM   #4
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I'd like to see Bud Selig's head expand and explode lol

Hate to see this. I really do-When will it be determined and recognized by all parties that a salary cap is needed in baseball to help teams be competitive with each other. Sorry I got into that subject.

I would love to see the Minnesota Twins go back to Washington D.C. from whence it came.
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Old 11-03-2001, 06:18 PM   #5
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Bama, the Twins will not move to DC. The Orioles would not allow it to happen.
Its all about money. The reason the Twins have been targeted is because they take fan base away from Selig's team, the Brewers. As I've said many times before, if the Brewers want more fans, they should do some work to improve their team. They have a nice, new, overpriced ballpark, but not enough decent players to compete there.
I'm a Twins fan, but first, I'm a baseball fan and things like this are not good for the game.
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Old 11-03-2001, 10:15 PM   #6
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Can someone please tell me how folding the Marlins and Twins will help baseball?

Plain and simple - it won't.

The same old teams will make the playoffs every year, the same bargain basement teams will continue to struggle. Get used to seeing the Yankees in the World Series every year, fellas -- at this rate, they're gonna be in it every year for a long, long time.

(On a related note, Joe Torre managed three other teams and was a sub-.500 manager before he took over the Yankees. Now we're supposed to believe he's some sort of a genius. Give me the highest payroll in baseball every year, year after year, make it so I can sign whoever I want, and I'll have the team in the WS, too. This is not rocket science.)
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Old 11-04-2001, 01:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wile E Coyote
Can someone please tell me how folding the Marlins and Twins will help baseball?
My theory is that less teams equals less players which means that salaries will decrease or, at the very least, cause salaries to stop increasing at such an alarming rate.
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Old 11-04-2001, 04:00 AM   #8
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Default How About The Unintended Consequences?

Including, first and foremost, the forced realignment that would be necessary. If it is the Twins and Expos who go, that means the Pirates head back to the NL East, which they would probably welcome; but then the talk about Arizona switching leagues would get revived (one NL team would have to do this) - and their ownership would definitely not welcome that! Of course if that did happen at least the "Texas Rangers problem" would be solved, in that the Rangers could then be moved from the AL West to the AL Central, as they so desperately desire.

And if it's the Devil Rays and not the Twins who get obliterated along with the Expos, then not only does all of the above happen, but in addition, one of the present AL Central teams will get bumped into the AL East - probably the Tigers, even though having the Indians do so would make more sense from a purely geographical standpoint.
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Old 11-04-2001, 02:36 PM   #9
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You're right - removing a few poor teams won't help baseball. It's time for a salary cap, already! Why hasn't one been instated? How could Selig be so against it? :redhot:
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Old 11-04-2001, 04:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by mjames
You're right - removing a few poor teams won't help baseball. It's time for a salary cap, already! Why hasn't one been instated? How could Selig be so against it? :redhot:
I don't think Selig is as much against it as the PA is.
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Old 11-04-2001, 08:08 PM   #11
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Lets say for example that the Expos and Twins are eliminated.
The alignment of the leagues would be changed dramatically.
The AL Central would need another team, and the NL would lose one. Perhaps the Astros would change leagues and move into the AL Central.
If the Devil Rays are substituted for the Twins, the Tigers or Indians would move to the AL East and the same scenario could play out.
If the Expos and Marlins were eliminated, the NL East would need several teams to be moved in. Pittsburgh and Cincinnati would make sense. This would leave the NL Central with 4 teams and should make it very competitive.
Thoughts?
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Old 11-05-2001, 03:05 AM   #12
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The thing everyone concerned has to ask themselves is this: Is a salary cap worth another strike/lockout which, given the deteriorating nature of the nation's economy, could spell the end of baseball as we know it?

As an alternative, why not try NFL-style "progressive" scheduling, basing the interleague games on where each team finished in their division the year before instead of pairing off entire divisions as is done now? (A while back I believe I actually made this the subject of a previous thread on this forum). And if that fails to achieve the desired results, you could even realign the divisions based on market size, with each league having a "large market" a "medium market" and a "small market" division instead of an "East," a "Central" and a "West." This would then be combined with an extremely unbalanced regular-season schedule (no more than six games between teams in different divisions) with the first round of the playoffs being shortened to a best-of-three (and the LCS to best-of-five) making upsets more frequent. The upside of this is that there is no way the players' union would go on strike to prevent it - in stark contrast to any salary-cap proposal the owners might make.

And here's an even more radical notion: Abolish the minor leagues! Or at least, restrict minor-league eligibilty to players that have been demoted from the parent club. Then turn the colleges into an impromptu "farm system" (which would make the College World Series as big an annual event as the BCS bowl games and the NCAA tournament) and institute an NFL/NBA-style college draft, with the worst team from the previous year getting the number one pick. With the bottom teams acquiring baseball's version of Troy Aikman or Peyton Manning every year, the talent gap would narrow very fast!

Last edited by Anthony; 11-06-2001 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 11-05-2001, 11:26 PM   #13
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Thumbs down How will the fans fare in all this?

Anthony that was an excellent post. I still would like to see a salary cap imposed. I realize this is America and a man should be able to get what he is worth to a team or what an owner thinks he worth. Even A-Rod was embarrassed somewhat by his big salary I'm told.

Look here's the bottom line-I'm a rabid fan of baseball and football, but I couldn't afford to go to a game by myself more than a few times a year. If I was a baseball owner or player I would want my home stadium packed. I would want my fans to be able to come quite often. They will price the poor and the middle class completely out eventually from seeing any big league games on a regular basis.

One day soon it will be just the wealthy in attendance-like I read what someone else wrote-They will be busier using their cell phones than watching the game.

I don't want the players to be poor, but the average player make $250,000.00 per year and a lot make one million or two million a year. Gosh its only a seven month season if you don't make the playoffs. That includes spring training. They make money from memorabilia too, plus bonuses and more money if they make the playoffs. So its not a bad profession by no means.

Some players especially in football say they need to make a lot of money in case they receive a career ending injury. To make up for future lost wages. Basically its the same. Most make a quarter of a million each season, plus their original signing bonuses and such.

I just don't see a real gripe for any player. For crying out loud its a sport, not brain surgery.

I realize the owners make big money, but they should be able to make a substantial amount. Why? They are the owners. The owner of any business is suspose to make more than his employees. That's common sense. He's the one that builds the franchise and has to do all the work of putting everything to together. If I owned a business I would treat my employees good and pay them a fair salary to where they could pay their normal bills and have some for entertainment. Greed is just killing us and yes some owners are very greedy. We need to put our priorities in order.

We as baseball fans, and who love the game, should do the walk-out. It is imperative that we not allow owners or players to price us out of the game we love. We have strenght, but only in mass numbers. The fans must stick together for once and say we aren't putting up with this junk any longer. You ballplayers are not God's and you must put your pants on the same as us. We want you to make good money, but don't forget about us. Without us you are nothing. They must be made to understand that, but I realize I'm wasting my breath. The fans won't stick together, but you can bet the union and the players will.

I liked that idea about eliminating the minor leagues. It should be like college football. Thanks for letting me vent.

:goof:
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Old 11-06-2001, 02:38 AM   #14
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Great post, Keith. Yes, there's a lot of blame to go around in this matter - but unfortunately, the fans are not completely innocent either.

When I was growing up, I used to hear about the way my parents and grandparents approached sports, particularly baseball. If the local team was mediocre, it was still important to finish in the "first division" - which meant fourth or higher in the original eight-team league. And if the local team was truly bad? You still pulled out all the stops to avoid finishing in the dreaded "cellar" - and the local fans rooted accordingly.

Sadly perhaps, but these concepts are utterly foreign to virtually any sports fan under 60 years old today. In this day and age, if a team doesn't make the playoffs, no one could care less where they finish (and it is this fan philosophy that has prompted both baseball and the NFL to increase the number of post-season qualifiers out of proportion to the number of teams added via expansion). In past decades, a team could be lousy for years and yet still draw enough fans to at least give the owners a decent return - "market size" was never even an issue.

Obviously this is no longer the case - and "greed" is only partly to blame; this attitude of "If you're not number one, you're nowhere" is every bit as much of a factor - and it doesn't originate with either players or owners.

Last edited by Anthony; 11-06-2001 at 02:43 AM.
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