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Old 11-19-2003, 09:23 PM   #31
Aristides
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LOL The thing OSU fans don't understand is that THEIR WIDE RECIEVERS OR BETTER THAN THE RUNNING GAME!!!!

Do you think the only weapon UM has is Perry???

If you do you have alot to learn. You say give it to Perry an X amount of times....okay. Great. I don't think he will have 100 yards personally but while your defense is focusing on the running game we can throw it over top of your DB's and let Edwards, Breaston and Avant go get it.

Okay so I lied about not saying anything more until Sunday. Sue me......
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Old 11-19-2003, 09:32 PM   #32
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And Ohio State's offense. You're right, they haven't really come around a too much, except Lydell Ross and the rest of the run game, 481 yards over the last four games on 94 carries, 5.1 ypc. Plus an additional 60 yards per game rushing and an extra 1.2 yards per carry, but i guess that isn't an improvement. But if you win 2/3 of the game chances are you win the game. Defense and Special Teams, that's how we win.
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Old 11-19-2003, 09:34 PM   #33
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I'm not saying that Perry is there only weapon, i'm a lot more worried about the trio of wideouts than of perry. I was merely rebutting Daves comment about Perry and the Buckeye Run Defense being overrated.
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Old 11-19-2003, 09:39 PM   #34
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It comes down to the lineman in this game. If Perry can get a few holes and John has a little time to throw the ball, UM's OL is the best in the Big10, OSU will have to rely on that offense to score.

The magic # is 20. 20 + a win for UM, 19 - OSU is Sugar Bound...
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Old 11-19-2003, 09:43 PM   #35
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Let's see... 481 yards against this combo:

a shi**y Indiana team...
a shi**y Penn State team...
an exposed-by-Michigan Purdue team...
an exposed-early-on-but-ignored Michigan State team...

Yeah, you could call me unconvinced by that.

Defense has proved stout, no taking that away. But, OSU's defense hasn't been called on to keep Michigan's weapons in check this year. Don't forget, that game last year was in the Horseshoe. Emotion carried the day. Emotion spurred on by the home crowd. The Wolvies came that final play from toppling the mighty Buckeyes, with much of the same cast. This Wolvies team is likely better, maybe by far, and is at home.

The Bucks play horribly away from home (Indiana excepted for the obvious reasons). They can't afford to play the same way they usually do on the road Saturday.

BTW... let's just note right now that even if UM wins 13-12, the Buckeyes are still the losers in the game, if winners in Vegas.

I don't think the Buckeyes will keep it that close, but...

I think Lloyd Carr is Michigan's worst enemy in this game. Well, Carr and Michigan's place-kicking. If it comes down to needing a 40+-yard field goal, I'd go for it instead of kicking, if I'm Michigan. Carr's good for a bad decision. Hopefully, it won't cost the Wolvies the game.

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Old 11-19-2003, 09:49 PM   #36
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Cant leave out John's decision making at the end games and lack of scrambling. Sometimes I think he tries to blow it.

If Carr loses this game and the one in the Shoe next year he might be the next Coop.......
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:00 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by MountaineerDave
Okay, this story doesn't lend a lot to this discussion, but I thought that it was funny, and appropriate in an OSU @ UM week discussion.

Not sure what this says about Ohio, or the judge, or the justice system at all...
At one level, it's funny and cute and you laugh at it.
At another, my God, the guy pleaded guilty so he could watch a football game. How guilty was he already? And how pathetic is that?

Oy.

Dave
LOL Just had time to read this. Thx for the laugh

Only here in Ohio, gotta love it.
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:24 PM   #38
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If we shut down Perry, I'll take my chances with Navarre.
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:30 PM   #39
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I have to take exception to Aristides' and Dave's take on this jail/judge thing, in that I think it tells you a lot about the inmate and the judge. I don't think it tells you anything about Ohio.

And gosh, Aristides, I'm awful sorry the Buckeye Calvalry did you hoist you on their shoulders, and come marching in to "help" you defend a team you hate (or hate as much as a fan of a big rival's usually does). But, most of what Dave has said is, well, true, although I'm about to take exception with a few of his points and I definitely take exception to his mostly shrill tone (most would say his points make OSU suspect; he seems to regard them as downright fraudulent. This is a 10-1 football team in a top conference. They CAN'T be *that* certifiably in over their heads).

The debating points he makes that I don't subscribe to (and I suppose I can't complain about tone, since I'm about to mock and exaggerate him, if only slightly), are the ones that amount to:

"What you do at home never counts for anything! Ohio State has beaten teams that others have also beaten! One team ran pretty well against them, and that's more telling that what they did to the run in the other ten games! The Bucks get hugely demerited because the third best team on their non-conference schedule didn't turn out to be as good as expected! "

I'm sorry that Robert Reynolds choked Jim Sorgi. Go ahead and hate the Bucks for them....but don't let it allow your OSU-sucks arguments to become reaches, especially since you don't really need them.
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:59 PM   #40
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LOL Here we go..................

I didn't wish the Buckeye "Cavalry" to come running in. I EXPECT them to defend their team and the Big 10 against those that think USC is this great team when they wouldn't be a one loss team having to go thru a much stronger Big 10 conference. If it was Michigan, Wisconsin or Purdue in the same situation instead of the Bucks I'd be doing the same thing.

Expect to be hoisted on OSU fans shoulders because I'm defending them and the conference? No.

Expect them to defend their team and the conference? Yes.
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Old 11-19-2003, 11:32 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by KevinBeane
I have to take exception to Aristides' and Dave's take on this jail/judge thing, in that I think it tells you a lot about the inmate and the judge. I don't think it tells you anything about Ohio.
I'm pretty sure my introduction of the jail story came with questions about the convict, thanks. Go back and read my post. You've wrongly accused me of taking potshots at Ohio. Defensive a little???

Quote:
Originally posted by KevinBeane
definitely take exception to his mostly shrill tone (most would say his points make OSU suspect; he seems to regard them as downright fraudulent.
Shockingly, I don't think I've been shrill AT ALL [shrillness added for evidence to the contrary, so you know what it is]

Ricky and dhav have made points about OSU's offense "coming around." I have rebutted those suggetions with stats and realities. I don't need shrillness when pointing out what we've seen.



Quote:
Originally posted by KevinBeane
"What you do at home never counts for anything!
I never made any such utterance, or anything like it. When a team plays at home eight times, compared to three trips, it's a worthy point, but I've not made it.


Quote:
Originally posted by KevinBeane
Ohio State has beaten teams that others have also beaten!

Exaggeration to the point of ludicrousness is just being ludicrous, Kevin. I respond only as a gesture of non-shrillness.

Quote:
Originally posted by KevinBeane
One team ran pretty well against them, and that's more telling that what they did to the run in the other ten games!
When discussing Michigan's possibilities, the Wisconsin game is incredibly instructive. Only Wisconsin's run game compares to what Michigan brings to the table, and in that respect, it is the one game that matters. Add to that it's one of the three road trips the Bucks have made, where their offense AND defense didn't do enough to win, and yes, to a certain degree, that ONE (not bold, so not shrill, just emphatic) game is the game that you look to, if you're Lloyd Carr, anyway.

Quote:
Originally posted by KevinBeane
The Bucks get hugely demerited because the third best team on their non-conference schedule didn't turn out to be as good as expected! "
This is from the other thread. Take that discussion over there. I don't recall getting all that involved in schedules in this one. (I might be mistaken, however, so if we've had some intense schedule discussion over here, I apologize, and you can mentally delete the above.)

Quote:
Originally posted by KevinBeane
I'm sorry that Robert Reynolds choked Jim Sorgi. Go ahead and hate the Bucks for them....but don't let it allow your OSU-sucks arguments to become reaches, especially since you don't really need them.
I think making Reynolds choking comments is completely appropriate inasmuch as I think that the Bucks are going to have as much trouble --likely, more-- controlling the Wolvies' offense as they had the Badgers. Because I think the frustration of getting pushed around was what led Reynolds (and not because he's a classless hoodlum, which he may be, I don't know and don't care) to take the actions he took in Madison, I think the real possiblity of likeminded individuals taking similar actions is something the Wolvies should be aware of.

I don't see you chiding dhav for making similarly heated, yet mostly just-towing-the-team-line (as would be expected, really... dhav is the guy who said "cheap shots are cheap shots, grow up Badgers") without any appreciation of the fact that the Buckeyes are clearly and obviously going into their toughest game of the year. Since they dropped a game to the Badgers, and the Wolvies are at worst a class better than the Badgers....

All that said, I hope Carr doesn't give the Bucks the game. I'm really sick of dhav and Ricky touting their team as the best thing since sliced bread, when while they're having a mostly unbelievably run, they are an incredibly flawed team.

Dave
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Old 11-20-2003, 08:31 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by MountaineerDave
[B]



I never made any such utterance, or anything like it. When a team plays at home eight times, compared to three trips, it's a worthy point, but I've not made it.
Humph! I wish I could do a search for all the times you used the words "home" or "road" in all of your football arguments and general, and about OSU specifically, it seems to be your #1 indicator far and away. Home field advantage is a big factor, I'm not trying to deny that, but at the end of the day, it's still 11-on-11 on an 120-yards-long field. It seems that what OSU accomplished at home this year is not only lessened by them being at home, but completely invalidated.


Quote:
Exaggeration to the point of ludicrousness is just being ludicrous, Kevin. I respond only as a gesture of non-shrillness.
I was referring to your point about all of the Purdues (probably the third best team in the big Ten) and Michigan State being EXPOSED before OSU played them. EVERYONE has been "exposed" at one point or another during the season, except the Sooners.
Quote:
When discussing Michigan's possibilities, the Wisconsin game is incredibly instructive. Only Wisconsin's run game compares to what Michigan brings to the table, and in that respect, it is the one game that matters. Add to that it's one of the three road trips the Bucks have made, where their offense AND defense didn't do enough to win, and yes, to a certain degree, that ONE (not bold, so not shrill, just emphatic) game is the game that you look to, if you're Lloyd Carr, anyway.
Instructive? Certainly. Indicative? Not necessarily. OSU's number one in the friggin' country in rushing defense!


Quote:
This is from the other thread. Take that discussion over there. I don't recall getting all that involved in schedules in this one. (I might be mistaken, however, so if we've had some intense schedule discussion over here, I apologize, and you can mentally delete the above.)
You're right, I did take it from the other thread, I had a theme going and I wanted to tie it all together. It was about your Washington comment, and you comment about how the Pac-10 and the Big Ten schedule non-conference games. If one read that comment you made without being familiar with OSU's and USC's non-conf. schedule, they would have deduced that USC almost certainly had a tougher non-conf. schedule than OSU, and they didn't. So, in that context, I didn't understand what your point was.


Quote:
I think making Reynolds choking comments is completely appropriate inasmuch as I think that the Bucks are going to have as much trouble --likely, more-- controlling the Wolvies' offense as they had the Badgers. Because I think the frustration of getting pushed around was what led Reynolds (and not because he's a classless hoodlum, which he may be, I don't know and don't care) to take the actions he took in Madison, I think the real possiblity of likeminded individuals taking similar actions is something the Wolvies should be aware of.
Oh boy. I can't find the right letters to describe the noise I made when I read this.

Even though it was the - what, second quarter? Early third? Reynolds KNEW it was hopeless? Was saying, "Damn it! I'm getting pushed around! This is a tight game, but no way do we win! <choke choke>" Even though had Chris Gamble not gotten burned on one play, it would've gone to OT? Even though OSU has won EVERY OTHER close game its played in the last two years, and risen to every challenge,? This is just ridiculous.

[QUOTE]
I don't see you chiding dhav for making similarly heated, yet mostly just-towing-the-team-line (as would be expected, really... dhav is the guy who said "cheap shots are cheap shots, grow up Badgers") without any appreciation of the fact that the Buckeyes are clearly and obviously going into their toughest game of the year. Since they dropped a game to the Badgers, and the Wolvies are at worst a class better than the Badgers....
[/QUOTE}

You're right, I don't, and you're right if you suspect I don't often exactly....AGREE with them. But this is only natural....I'm sure if I looked hard enough, I could find some ridiculous posts that, at the end of the day, came to the same conclusion you believed in and hoped for, and you did not attack that poster.

Ah well....1 day, 16 hours, and 29 minutes to go!

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Old 11-22-2003, 01:36 AM   #43
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Buckeyes will win...deal with it.

I'm really starting to enjoy the fact that everyone hates them. It makes it more fun.
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Old 11-23-2003, 02:15 AM   #44
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WOW! EAT THOSE WORDS!

So sad after today.
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Old 11-24-2003, 04:15 PM   #45
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We only hated them because you rooted for them, Ricky, and because you said idiotic things like,
Quote:
Buckeyes will win...deal with it.


I hated that the game was up against my WVU-Syracuse game, because I didn't really see much of it. The Orange didn't roll over (not that I expected them to), so I only saw bits and pieces of OSU-Michigan during commercial breaks and in ESPN game breaks.

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