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Old 08-21-2006, 03:59 AM   #1
ryan_day
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Default Does anyone else think Madden shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame?

I mean, 112 wins in 10 seasons is solid...but not Hall of Fame-worthy. Neither is one Super Bowl win. Is 10 wins a season (for ONLY 10 seasons) and a single championship the new benchmark? I can think of a half-dozen present-day coaches off the top of my head that could be in the HoF based on that criteria (and some even exceed that criteria).

If Madden was inducted because of his broadcasting, I still don't buy it. The Hall of Fame is for special coaches and special players. The bar is being lowered because of "feel good" picks.
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:56 AM   #2
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Well, it's the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Stats. Madden represents the way football should be to so many people. He was an outstanding coach and he is one of the most popular commentators ever and I personally think he belongs in there.
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Old 08-21-2006, 12:42 PM   #3
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John Madden is as big of an ambassador of the NFL as any other person walking the earth.

But even if he just went in as a coach, I don't have a problem with it. Averaging 11 wins a season for 10 years is very impressive, even moreso when you factor in that the seasons were just 14 games long during his tenure. Had he never won a SuperBowl, it could have been questioned, but he's got one, so that pretty much sealed it.

But there's also something to be said for what he's brought to the game of football as an announcer and as a marketer though his video games.
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Old 08-21-2006, 03:02 PM   #4
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Yea, but those 11 wins a season includes the playoffs. So, we're looking at an average season with Madden as coach as 11-4 and missing the Super Bowl.

Huh?

And if you want to talk about guys that work hard outside of the game itself, look up the name Jack Butler and then try and tell me why he's not in the HoF.
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Old 08-21-2006, 05:33 PM   #5
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I thought we were talking about if John Madden should be in the HoF, not Jack Butler. We could come up with tons of people we think should be in the HoF. Like Noon said, you would be hard pressed to find a better ambassador for football or a more FAMEous football personality.
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Old 08-21-2006, 05:36 PM   #6
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I'm not a Madden fan.
The only thing I like about him is his game, and I've tired of that, too, so...

That said:
Yeah, he only won one Super Bowl. George Allen won none, but is in. George Halas never won a Super Bowl. Neither did Paul Brown. Marv Levy never won, either.
(Yes, with the exception of Allen and Levy, they won titles, but...)

Madden's finishes were like this:
69: Lost AFL title to Kansas City
70: Lost to Baltimore, who went on to win the Super Bowl
71: no playoffs
72: Lost to Pittsburgh in the Divisional round of the playoffs, who lost to the undefeated Dolphins
73: Lost to Miami in AFC Championship Game (SB winner)
74: Lost to Pittsburgh in AFC Championship Game (SB winner)
75: Lost to PIttsburgh in AFC Championship Game (SB winner)
76: Won the Super Bowl
77: Lost to Denver in the AFC Championship Game (SB loser)
78: no playoffs

Is it Madden's fault that his Raiders ran up against two of the great runs in national football history (Miami & Pittsburgh)?

I find it difficult to hold it against him. The guy went to five straight AFC title games... and lost four. The one he didn't lose, he won the SB.
While it'd be easier to pronounce as great someone who lost four of five Super Bowls, it's hard to argue against him simply because he had the misfortune of being a darn good coach during a time that Shula and Noll were running everything in the NFL. Erase those two guys, and Madden might have won five straight Super Bowls.
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Old 08-21-2006, 06:50 PM   #7
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You know when it gets right down to it, aside from '77, he lost only to HOF coaches in the playoffs: Stram in '69, Shula in '70 and '73, and Noll in '72, '74, and '75. Also, 10 wins a year is pretty impressive given they only played a 14 game schedule every year of his career except for '78.
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Old 08-22-2006, 02:48 AM   #8
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Dave...

Halas retired from coaching in 1967. How the hell could he have won a Super Bowl?
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Old 08-22-2006, 03:14 AM   #9
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Dave, Dave, Dave....

Papa Bear won 6 NFL Championship games as a coach:

1921-'33-'40-'41-'46-'63.....

Those were Super days before the Superbowl....

A Founding Father....
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Old 08-22-2006, 03:46 AM   #10
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Yea, I don't understand Dave's thinking here. He admits Halas and Brown (which boggles the mind to think he doesn't deserve to be in) won titles but not Super Bowls? I don't understand the thinking...I guess we'll have to wait on the explanation.
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Old 08-22-2006, 04:06 PM   #11
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This guy definitely derserves to be in the Hall. Super Bowl winner and great broadcasting career.
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Old 08-22-2006, 06:30 PM   #12
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I don't know...I tend to think that the bar has been lowered to cater to "popular" picks of "FAMEous" players in recent years. While Madden is indeed the face of football to many of the younger fans, his accomplishments on the field weren't enough to push him into the Hall (in my opinion).

Okay...10 wins a season in a 14 game season. That's what, 11 wins a season in the current season format? And only reaching (and winning) the Super Bowl once just because he was facing superior coaches is now an excuse? HoF-caliber coaches find a way to win, and Madden didn't.

To me, Madden is the coach equivalent of Peyton Manning; exceptional in the regular season and then falls short in (most) high-profile playoff games.
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Old 08-22-2006, 07:44 PM   #13
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Wouldn't a better example be Bill Cowher?
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Old 08-22-2006, 09:27 PM   #14
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Good call.
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Old 08-23-2006, 04:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan_day View Post
I don't know...I tend to think that the bar has been lowered to cater to "popular" picks of "FAMEous" players in recent years. While Madden is indeed the face of football to many of the younger fans, his accomplishments on the field weren't enough to push him into the Hall (in my opinion).

Okay...10 wins a season in a 14 game season. That's what, 11 wins a season in the current season format? And only reaching (and winning) the Super Bowl once just because he was facing superior coaches is now an excuse? HoF-caliber coaches find a way to win, and Madden didn't.

To me, Madden is the coach equivalent of Peyton Manning; exceptional in the regular season and then falls short in (most) high-profile playoff games.

I would imagine that at the rate he is going that Peyton Manning will end up in the HoF as well, even if he does not get a ring. Just like Dan Marino. Also, Madden did win.

I also think popularity goes right along with FAMEous, like I said before it is the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Stats.

Are you trying to say that if you don't win multiple Super Bowls that you should not be allowed in the HoF?
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Last edited by LA sports; 08-23-2006 at 03:49 PM.
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