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Old 11-13-2006, 03:59 AM   #16
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The economy is doing well for the wealthiest Americans, but the middle class is being squeezed and the low-level workers can't survive on minimum wage. I'll give you the employment point, but the democrats do have a lot to offer, namely a Congress that won't give Bush free power and will truly bring back checks and balances.

It's dangerous when one party has so much control. The Republicans screwed up in every way possible through their scandals, one after another. It is time for a change, and even many Republicans admit this. Bottom line: voting Democrat, as so many did, was a statement by America saying they aren't happy about Iraq and want changes. This election was about Iraq and the scandal-plagued administration, no doubt.

This is a new generation of democrats, a more moderate one. Karl Rove led the Bush administration so far left that it backfired. Now his only support comes from ... I hate to say it ... the south. Man, I need to relocate to a blue state after undergrad.

Here's my stance on Iraq. I am in favor of gradual withdrawl of troops. We are there and not winning and there isn't any light at the end of the tunnel. What's happened is we have driven out everyone except the extremists who are fighting a civil war. The innocent citizens and non-violent have either been killed or fled. This fantasy about giving Iraq back to them is misguided. All we're doing is standing in the middle of two groups fighting each other. And you don't honor those who have given their lives in Iraq by letting more brave soldiers die. Our presence is creating more hatred for our country. It's really a lose-lose situation by staying.
When the day comes that the economy is good for everybody in the U.S. then we will have a true miracle. We can't expect things to be perfect. Would you rather have a higher unemployment rate so that lower paying jobs could pay more?

One of my main points about the democrats is that what they supposedly have to offer does not exist. Yeah americans voted these changes but that is another one of my points, the democrats lied to do it. They campaigned on the Iraq war and that the republicans don't have a plan when in fact the democrats are the one's without a plan. Bush is saying we need to stay the course and not make promises about the future that can't possibly be predicted.

I think we would all like to see a withdrawal from Iraq so that probably goes without saying, I just want to give it every possible chance to be a successful withdrawal with the Iraqi leadership in control. I also think that progress has been made in Iraq and the picture you paint of it is not nearly as bad as you say. But on both of our parts these are just opinions, I feel it is going better than people think it will just take more time. You also don't honor those soldiers who have died by not doing all we can to make this successful. Your statement about this is part of the problem IMO, when soldiers die too many americans say it is now not worth it. I don't mean to sound corny but I am glad our past societies have not had this attitude or who knows what flag would be flying above us. If we just let tyrants and terrorist do what they want around the world without putting up the best fight possible than it will find it's way back to us like it already has. I am also not worried if other countries hate us or not, so I'm not worried about this war being a popularity contest. It is funny how other countries hate us until they need us.

Like I have said before I know that republicans are not always honest either. But to base the main part of your campaign on something that is not true is pulling the wool over america's head and deceiving it. Right after the elections to come out and show that you don't have what you accused the other party of not having is a slap in the face to all of us IMO.
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Old 11-13-2006, 04:18 AM   #17
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The unemployment rate being low doesn't mean anything because the real issue is the quality of jobs available, not the quantity of them; otherwise, why did the Republicans get slaughtered in Pennsylvania and Ohio, where in just those two states they lost two Senate seats and five House seats?

As for all the "cut and run" rhetoric, it's only "cut and run" if we leave without reaching a lasting political solution. Fortunately, however, such a solution is readily attainable: Iraq needs to be partitioned into a Kurdistan in the north, with a "Sunnistan" being carved out of the central third and a "Shiastan" in the south.

There people have been hating each other and killing each other for 1,300 years; to expect them to stop now just because a few idealistic dreamers think it would be a good idea is just plain naive and just plain dumb.

And since the neocons have declared partitioning Iraq a non-starter, the Democrats have to get behind it.
I think the republicans lost these seats mainly because of the war in Iraq that the democrats are supposedly going to fix when they have no plan to do so.

I don't know why but I just had to ask. Are you saying that by giving official boundaries and recognizing these groups as official countries or factions that this will solve things? and then in your next statement you say that these people have been killing each other for 1,300 years so expecting them to stop now (by the way this comment of yours shoots down your theory stated in your previous sentence) just because a few idealistic dreamers think it would be a good idea is just naive and dumb.

It will be difficult for sure, possibly impossible but we have to try. It seems to me that you either contradict yourself from sentence to sentence which makes your statements not make sense or you just have a defeatist attitude. I could be reading your post wrong but this is what I got out of it.
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Old 11-13-2006, 10:40 AM   #18
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The whole democratic campaign was based on an EXIT plan for our troops in Iraq...
Let's look at the issue purely political... Democrats now have their eye on 2008... if the Iraq issue disappears, i.e., troops from Iraq come home, they have no campaign issue in 2008.

Expect the Dems to jointly codemn the war for the next two years but maintain the troop presence in Iraq. In fact, leading Dem candidates, Clinton, Obama, et al., will insist troops stay in Iraq.

If the 2008 campaign is on the economy or anti-terrorism, the Republicans will win. If it is on Iraq, the Democrats win. Expect Murtha's "bring the troops home now" rhetoric to be squashed.
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Old 11-16-2006, 08:01 AM   #19
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I think the republicans lost these seats mainly because of the war in Iraq that the democrats are supposedly going to fix when they have no plan to do so.

Personally I have a problem with these polls that state that 60 per cent of Americans disapprove of the administration's handling of the war. Of that 60 per cent, how many disapprove of it because we're not doing enough in Iraq and believe we should send more troops there, as John McCain does? These respondents should hardly be lumped in with the cut-and-run crowd - yet the warped polling data being cited invariably does exactly that.



Quote:
I don't know why but I just had to ask. Are you saying that by giving official boundaries and recognizing these groups as official countries or factions that this will solve things? and then in your next statement you say that these people have been killing each other for 1,300 years so expecting them to stop now (by the way this comment of yours shoots down your theory stated in your previous sentence) just because a few idealistic dreamers think it would be a good idea is just naive and dumb.

It will be difficult for sure, possibly impossible but we have to try. It seems to me that you either contradict yourself from sentence to sentence which makes your statements not make sense or you just have a defeatist attitude. I could be reading your post wrong but this is what I got out of it.

It didn't work in Yugoslavia - and there was "only" about 600 years' worth of constant hatred among the parties to live down there - so why should it work in Iraq with the feuds in that country being more than twice as long?

As I see it, there is a "tipping point," beyond which inter-ethnic, inter-religious etc. antagonisms become permanent on both sides. Clearly that "tipping point" is longer than 75 years (the period of more or less continuous hostility between France and Germany, from the Franco-Prussian War through World War II), but would appear to be shorter than 600 years, given Yugoslavia's experience (a sobering thought along these lines, and one that strikes close to home: In just 13 years we will observe the 400th anniversary of slavery in America; so if we are going to put the issue of race to rest in this society, time is clearly of the essence).

And was it "defeatist" to recognize the independence of the five non-Serbian republics of the former Yugoslavia? No, it wasn't "defeatist" - it was highly realistic.
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Old 11-16-2006, 08:47 AM   #20
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With the economy doing well, the stock market doing well, and unemployment at an all-time low and the liberals with nothing to offer, decided to base this entire election on the anti-Iraq war theme...

Precisely... look to Hillarybeast to be one of the voices of do nothing in Iraq until the 2008 elections... Democrats, on the whole, are the big losers here - the weakest link - in the process of governance. They have no plan for Iraq but are upset about it and condemn the present plan simply to get their voices on the condemnation bandwagon... Some of the far left, Murtha et al., have fielded absurd notions of change (redeploy to Okinawa :lol which serves nobody and no mission that I can tell. Even when the command soldiers come to Washington to tell the Democrats that they don't need more troops and they want the mission to continue, as General Abizaid did yesterday, Democrats ignore the troops and offer more condemnation. Righteous indignation...

What I don't see getting much airplay is the fact that despite the fighting in Iraq and the contunual strife, and the ongoing mission in Afghanistan, something is working successfully to prevent further terrorism here at home. And wasn't that the whole point of this War anyway? So it seems the White House should be in receipt of kudos, but we all know that's not going to happen...
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Old 11-16-2006, 08:23 PM   #21
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Seriously, if Al-Queida is happy the Democrats won then we are in trrouble. Which I'm sure they are happy. Not good for America at all.
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Old 12-14-2006, 04:26 AM   #22
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I'm so glad to see there are political threads here. We were worrying that we might lose that leaving CBS. We've had some really good discussions over there and I look forward to continuing them here. You really seem like a great group of people.
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Old 12-14-2006, 10:46 AM   #23
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Hiya old friends from CBS...and hiya to all...

GW made nice for about a week... he actually even had meetings with people that didn't agree with him... now it is back to stay the course... GW is looking to increase troop levels 30K more...

Deja vu, all over again,
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Old 12-14-2006, 12:33 PM   #24
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Yes, very glad to see political threads over here!

bama, the terrorists don't care who is in office over here. They hate Democrats, Republicans, whoever is American. If anything, republicans are the best thing for terrorists. What more could you ask for in terms of recruiting terrorists. Young Arab and Muslim children see what the terrorists have always warned them about: white Americans killing their families. The war in Iraq is the ultimate recruitment tool for terrorists.
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Old 12-14-2006, 12:47 PM   #25
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With the economy doing well, the stock market doing well, and unemployment at an all-time low and the liberals with nothing to offer, decided to base this entire election on the anti-Iraq war theme.
Precisely... Democrats had nothing to offer or run on so they pulled the big scare... frightening Americans... Democrats didn't run on a single domestic issue... the great economy we have, our security at home, the falling deficit, and Bush's improvements to education had Democrats running scared...so they ran on Iraq issue all the way... now that they won the leadership they want to leave Iraq issue as is....

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Then yesterday the Iraqi president says that leaders of the democratic party have assured him not to worry that there will be no quick withdrawal from Iraq by american troops...
Of course. Democrats lied. You are surprised?

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Also yesterday an al-qaeda leader in Iraq releases a statement saying he is pleased that the democrats have taken control of congress...
Osama bin Laden was a big contributor to Democrat Party... Dean invited Osama and all the Al Qaeda folks to a big party in January after Dems take control...

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So terrorist are pleased that democrats are in control of congress, hmmmmm..... maybe that should tell us something.
It tells me three things: (1) Ask for a flak jacket and armored helmet for Christmas, (2) avoid crowds and big sports stadiums in 2007, and (3) consider Canada as a new home.

I am so scared for the nation now... I wish Bush could win again in 2008 and fix the problems the Democrats have brought down upon our nation...
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:10 PM   #26
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BUSH, FIX problems? Are you out of your mind. Please stop talking about politics because it is clear that you will hate anything the Democrats do and love anything the republicans do. IRAQ QAS A TERRIBLE IDEA AND WE ARE STILL THERE. Open yours eyes blind man.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:23 PM   #27
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BUSH, FIX problems? Are you out of your mind...
In my prior post I neglected to give Vice President Cheney credit for his role and his potential role in the future... he brings key expertise to our successful administration...
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:41 PM   #28
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IntheNet,
Now I can tell you are either joking arund or just out of your mind. Thanks for the laugh.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:53 PM   #29
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InTheNet, you are being paranoid. Invading Afghanistan was just because it weakened Al Qaida. But the Iraq war? There was no connection between Al Qaida and Iraq and Iraq didn't have any weapons of mass destruction. You try and defend Bush and the war, but in reality we are the ones spreading terror by bombing cities and creating complete chaos and instability in Iraq.When it comes to bombing and killing people our government has no problem, but it takes us forever when it comes to helping people in our own country after a natural disaster. I just question the governments priorities when they spend more money on killing people than things helping to provide basic needs for people in Africa.

The Democrats aren't that much better right now, but at least they will try and fix up the things that Bush messed up and fight against Bush.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:54 PM   #30
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IntheNet,
Now I can tell you are either joking arund or just out of your mind. Thanks for the laugh.
I get the feeling that his posts are his honest views, although they are a bit sarcastic at times just to stir up the Bush haters. He is like this all of the time though and eventually you get used to it
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