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Old 06-18-2006, 11:20 PM   #1
buckeyefan78
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Default Another tradition bites the dust...

http://ohiostatebuckeyes.cstv.com/sp...tbl-sched.html

After ranting about it just a few weeks ago, they've changed the kickoff time for the Ohio State v Michigan game to 3:30 for the first time in my lifetime and I believe ever. No explanation why on the outlets I've seen. I'm guessin' $...of course. You give 'em an inch and they take a mile. Hopefully I'll be dead by the time they don't even play each other anymore and are usin' cyborgs instead of humans.

Gotta get a whole new routine and try to rework my gameday rituals. I know of one that is in the crapper right now with just this news. No time to go see a high school playoff game that night unless it's VERY close in proximity. Even then I doubt that's enough time for me to cool off after the game.

Another sad day in the history of college football. 102 years changed in a heartbeat.
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Old 06-19-2006, 02:05 AM   #2
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Has it really been Noon every single time for the last 102 years?

Even if so, just to rankle Buckeye...YAY!!!!! YAY progress! Boo my grandparents' leather-helmeted traditions!!! Move the kickoff to 9PM on a Sunday Night! As long as they battle for three hours, I don't give a *****!
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Old 06-19-2006, 03:03 AM   #3
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People thought Pitt and PSU would do battle each year. People thought that Oklahoma and Nebraska would do battle each year. People thought that Ohio State and Illinois would do battle each year (poor Illibuck Trophy and peace pipe ceremony).

Penn State joins a conference that they don't get along with, esp. in the early years. Goodbye Pitt.

Oklahoma and Nebraska? Victims of the dreaded conference title game.

OSU and Illinois? Victims of PSU joining the league.

Give it time KB. Your "progress" is goin' to bite you in the ass eventually. No Ohio State v Michigan by 2020...I know it. Don't worry though. They'll tell us it's for the best...just like the BCS.
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Old 06-19-2006, 10:55 AM   #4
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Pitt and Penn State have no one to blame but themselves, since there's about 20 other schools that are not in the same conference as their main rival but manage to play every year, like FSU/Florida and Iowa State/Iowa.

Oklahoma/Nebraska...I feel bad for Nebraska on this one, but not Oklahoma, who already has two big rivals besides Nebraska. You may feel like either the Big 8 and the SWC shouldn't have merged so as to not disturb rivalries, or that they should've made special allowances for Nebraska/Oklahoma (I'm sure special rules for them would've gone over real well with the Texas Techs and Baylors and others), but that's not an apt comparison to Michigan/Ohio State, since even if the Big Ten added a 12th member, there would be no geographic or other reason to split the teams apart. They will never split up Auburn and Alabama, Army and Navy, or Ohio State and Michigan, and that's true no matter how proudly nihilistic you are.

Illinois/Ohio State? Are you kidding me? There's some great tragedy that this trophy no one under 70 cares about except you only gets contested 9 out of every 11 years instead of every year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan78
Don't worry though. They'll tell us it's for the best...just like the BCS.
I'm glad you brought that up. The other day, I got to see the last five minutes of the 1981 Orange Bowl on Sun Sports Florida, pitting Florida State against Oklahoma.

Keith Jackson said, "Wouldn't it be nice if the winner of this game could face Georgia?"

After a go-ahead score, they interviewed J.C. Watts on the sideline and he said, "Bring on Georgia!"

Keith Jackson's color man, I forget who it was, also said the matter of the best team in the land was "not totally settled." or words to that effect.

It was VERY illuminating because I thought you and Dave have told us no one ever talked about or cared about this stuff like National Championship game possibilities and dreams of playoffs before Disney, Roy Kramer, and the Trilateral Commission got together sometime in the early 90's and decided to tell us we cared. That's three comments from three different people from a single medium alluding to that illogical, ridiculous, untraditional desire to give College Football the same on-field determination that they practice for every other sport at every other level in the United States, within just the brief period of the game I caught! In 1981!
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Old 06-20-2006, 12:44 AM   #5
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Ohio State and Illinois had a continuous rivalry since 1914 Kevin. Ohio State and Michigan have been going at it each year since 1918. They had played 91 times before the rivalry was halted in 2003. That's 40some more times than Auburn and Alabama. It matters.

How can I put this...in regards to your 1981 Orange Bowl story...well...you had to be there. Look, there has always been a demand for a "national champion" in SOME context. That's why the AP started ranking teams for a national champ in 1936. It's also why after the 1948 Rose Bowl a great cry went up for a post-bowls poll (national champion was named by AP prior to bowls...man do I LOVE that...but you could probably guess that huh...LOL).

UM finished #2 behind Notre Dame but after crushing USC in Pasadena by a score of 49-0 the general public was outraged. After all, Notre Dame had tied the Trojans just a few weeks earlier. How could they be #1 if UM destroyed USC? So, the AP took another poll and rewarded UM with the 1948 AP National Championship !!!! What is even more hilarious is that the AP didn't stick with a post-bowl crowning after 1948. It wouldn't be til 1968 that they made it law. FANTASTIC!

Was that fair? Was that "professional?" What would the blogs, dotcoms, and Tostitos say? Fortunately, they didn't have such nonsense.

In 1965, Notre Dame and Michigan State finished undefeated and tied each other 10-10 in East Lansing. Both major polls were taken AFTER the bowls that year and declared Notre Dame the national champions (both finished 9-0-1). Many cited the fact that the game was in East Lansing to give the edge to Notre Dame while others argued that MSU had outplayed the Irish. Subject of great debate? Yep. A classic game? Yep (ESPN Classic just reran it within the last week or two). It's called the "Greatest Game Ever." It managed to survive without formulas and suits.

I don't know much but I do know this: those are the stories that make college football romantic and lasting. Things were debated. People wanted their team to be #1, but it never went beyond compromising your own little world of college football. These stories built the game's mystic and that's why we love it. Everything doesn't have to be contrived or concluded. You aren't a fan of pop music Kevin. Ask yourself why. You don't want something marketed to you. You want spontaneous sincere music. College football is full of that kind of history. Everyone has a story. Alabama, Ohio State, USC....they all get to bask in their OWN history while being able to "sprinkle in" the national conquests.

The line between doing your own thing and homogenizing ALL college football has been blurred. We differ on how much. That's partly why I like to fight with Mike and Sue in here. I don't want THEIR history. They sure as hell shouldn't want mine. What the hell do they know about what it means to beat Michigan? What the hell do I know about what it means to beat Florida or Georgia?
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Old 06-20-2006, 03:37 AM   #6
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We've debated before whether the corporations led the public to a National Championship or the other way around. I won't go there again as we have beaten that topic to death and we're not gonna change our minds on it. But as far as the BCS diluting the debate and passion of college football: This website is a forum for debate, and the college football board thrives during the season and survives during the offseason (why, here we are debating in June - and if this thread doesn't count, then I submit to you that the "Akron should be considered a quality opponent" thread should).

As far as the passion goes, I'm going to give you some anecdotal evidence: Me. I'm pretty damn passionate about college football. It is, far and away, my favorite sport. And yet I'm only 30, I insist that my desire for a playoff and a national champion is my own and not the result of corporate subliminization, I often mock your (and Dave's) puritannical views on college football, would watch Indiana and Northwestern before Auburn and Alabama, and hundreds of thousands still pack the stadia of the storied programs in every region of the country, including games against the dreaded 1-AA schools (at least we can agree on that). Seems to me the passion is as strong as it's ever been.

As far as "I don't want THEIR history. They sure as hell shouldn't want mine. What the hell do they know about what it means to beat Michigan? What the hell do I know about what it means to beat Florida or Georgia?"

Well...eh...that's because you're a vitriolic anti-southern regionalist, not because you are some great advocate of homogeneity.

I'm kidding. Sort of. But I don't really see you taking potshots the Big 12, for example (in fact, the lack of an Oklahoma/Nebraska game was one of your argument points...what do you care, Mr. The-Boundaries-of-the-Universe-from West-to-East-stretch-from Central-Iowa-to-the OH/PA-line?) and I'd be really curious about your interest in the Pac 10 if not for the historical link with the Big Ten. I suspect it'd be no different, because again your stand for homogeneity has to do with your hatred of the South more than anything. And I don't mind making that accusation since you have accused me of being brainwashed before.
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Old 06-21-2006, 12:25 AM   #7
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Look Kevin I hate the South, but this has nothing to do with that. I'd gladly say so if it did (in terms of football and otherwise). You know I'm not shy about that...LOL.

We don't have a rivalry with southern teams (never could get 'em up here..wink wink). We did with the Pac Ten teams. My feelings on the Rose Bowl were kinda like this:

We did our thing in our tradition and they did their thing within their tradition (UCLA-USC, The Civil War, Cal-Stanford is legendary) and now let's do battle.

The BCS contrives things. While exciting and even participating in it to a certain degree, it bothers me that an increasing majority of folks talk about BCS implications when OSU and Blue take the field and not the fact that this is Ohio State and Michigan.

The main victims of old school college football were the Big Ten and Pac Ten. Then I'd throw in the current Big Twelve (OU-Neb) when EVERYONE involved got the ball rolling on this National Championship junk. The southern teams had the least to lose (esp. financially...Rose was the big boy by far in payout before BCS) because they were always left out of inter-regional battling (by THEIR choice). Kramer had a heavy hand in the early formual, so yea, I will at times put more blame on 'em but we've past that point now. I'm just tryin' to hold on for dear life.

Yea, we've debated the corporate thing to death. I like your anecdotal story. It just proves my point: you love the damn thing, let it be.

You know KB, frankly, you're getting too old to NOT think like me and Dave on this. You're married right? Don't ya love her and do unreasonable things just because that's the way it is? If ya think NOT having a playoff is unreasonable, just think of it as your wife...LOL.

P.S.

I like how you keep holdin' on to that brainwashing comment I made. Never gonna let it go eh? LOL. Bein' brainwashed by football and your wife ain't a bad cult to belong too though.
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Old 06-21-2006, 04:12 AM   #8
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My dad and his side of the family are from Nebraska and the OU/Nebraska game is huge. I have a few buddies that I hang out with and most of us are huge college football fans, one of them ask the question "what would be your top 5 rivalries in college football". I believe all of us had this rivalry in there and these guys are mainly all California boys. If OU/Nebraska are now not playing every year than not much is safe IMO.

I just hope they never touch the Army/Navy game. That is when you really know that all is lost.

I also think they should get rid of the BCS, I was fine with the old system. I think there are more controversies now than before. Pac-10 should always play Big-10 in the Rose Bowl, traditions like these are much better than having a BCS game IMO.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LA sports
My dad and his side of the family are from Nebraska and the OU/Nebraska game is huge. I have a few buddies that I hang out with and most of us are huge college football fans, one of them ask the question "what would be your top 5 rivalries in college football". I believe all of us had this rivalry in there and these guys are mainly all California boys. If OU/Nebraska are now not playing every year than not much is safe IMO.

I just hope they never touch the Army/Navy game. That is when you really know that all is lost.

I also think they should get rid of the BCS, I was fine with the old system. I think there are more controversies now than before. Pac-10 should always play Big-10 in the Rose Bowl, traditions like these are much better than having a BCS game IMO.
Just when I think all is lost, a post like this arrives.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LA sports
I also think they should get rid of the BCS, I was fine with the old system. I think there are more controversies now than before. Pac-10 should always play Big-10 in the Rose Bowl, traditions like these are much better than having a BCS game IMO.
My sentiments exactly.
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