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Old 07-21-2006, 11:13 PM   #61
doublee
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Hey now let's give credit where credit is due. The Kings were the ones dumb enough to give Webber that contract due to overwhelming pressure from the fanbase to keep him at all costs. Billy King was simply the one stupid enough to take the contract off their hands.
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Old 07-21-2006, 11:30 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublee
Hey now let's give credit where credit is due. The Kings were the ones dumb enough to give Webber that contract due to overwhelming pressure from the fanbase to keep him at all costs. Billy King was simply the one stupid enough to take the contract off their hands.
:lol: Fair enough.

Who gets the credit for Larry Johnson and Allan Houston? Both got FAT deals and were getting paid after they retired. :lol:
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Old 07-22-2006, 12:19 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan78
LOL...good one tray on Larry Brown benching the greats.



Anyway...I'm not saying Pierce isn't a solid player. I just don't understand why you give him that huge contract. You are putting him up there with Lebron, Melo,Wade as well as Shaq. Lebron and Melo have youth and solid numbers. Wade has youth and a ring. Shaq is a legend. Pierce has no youth, no rings, and plays on a team that desperately needs upgrades at every turn.
2 things.

1) This is ALL Boston has
2) Danny Ainge is not the brightest bulb in the box.


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I would have started over if I was Boston.
Buckeye.......I am shocked to hear that coming from you . :lol:

The Laker fan with whom anything less than title talk is blasphemy. :lol:

Have you forgotten that Boston was "titletown" before LA was? You have to at least make Boston fans THINK that you are attempting to win it all and letting Pierce go to start all over will not help that at all. Maybe if they land AI they would have a legit chance to win in the East but they would start a riot in Boston if they started over right now and Ainge would be burned at the stake.
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Old 07-22-2006, 12:42 AM   #64
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Boston hasn't contended since the Big 3 left if you throw out their 02 run. Pierce got a lotta love from the Boston press and former Celtics this year though so I guess the pressure was on.

I don't see how anyone can think the Celtics are attempting to win though. Well...people think the Lakers are attempting to win too so I guess fooling people is easier than I thought. Good point.
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Old 07-22-2006, 10:57 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan78
:lol: Fair enough.

Who gets the credit for Larry Johnson and Allan Houston? Both got FAT deals and were getting paid after they retired. :lol:
Was Scott Layden the GM of the Knicks at the time? I can't remember but I think the Knicks are responsible for both those deals. I think the Hornets dumped him on the Knicks because they didn't want to pay him what he was asking for.
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Old 07-22-2006, 03:26 PM   #66
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I was just thinking about how much of steal JJ Redick was in the draft. If I were a playoff team/contender, I would have moved up to draft him. Considering JJ is among the top-five most clutch free-throw shooters in the world, he's basically going to win you five games. Just throw him the damn ball with under two minutes to go in a close game. But whatever, I guess Josh Boone and his busted shoulder will win you five games too.
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Old 07-25-2006, 07:42 PM   #67
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Quote:
I was just thinking about how much of steal JJ Redick was in the draft. If I were a playoff team/contender, I would have moved up to draft him. Considering JJ is among the top-five most clutch free-throw shooters in the world, he's basically going to win you five games. Just throw him the damn ball with under two minutes to go in a close game. But whatever, I guess Josh Boone and his busted shoulder will win you five games too
He is a five win guy? Really?

What about the other 40+ minutes where opponents shooting guards would be having career numbers? Jeez. Because he can shoot doesn't make him a guy that makes the difference between a playoff home seed and a lower seed. If he could defend and create, he might be.

Even if it is under two minutes, the player he would be guarding would score easily.

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Considering JJ is among the top-five most clutch free-throw shooters in the world
And we figure this before he played a game, I mean, he has to be more clutch than Kobe at the line, Wade, James, Melo, Billups, Iverson, and Nash at the line.

Besides, I don't see how clutch free throws would matter. To be able to shoot free throws late in the game, he would have to drive and finish, or at least drive the ball against elite defenders and athletes. No ACC ref to bail him out.
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Old 07-26-2006, 09:16 PM   #68
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Boston signed undrafted free agent Kevin Pittsnogle from West Virginia. How are you gonna pass on a guy with a name like that?
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Old 07-26-2006, 10:19 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slinky
He is a five win guy? Really?

What about the other 40+ minutes where opponents shooting guards would be having career numbers? Jeez. Because he can shoot doesn't make him a guy that makes the difference between a playoff home seed and a lower seed. If he could defend and create, he might be.

Even if it is under two minutes, the player he would be guarding would score easily.
He doesn't have to create anything. Rip Hamilton doesn't create his own shots, but he somehow manages 20ppg. JJ's defense and durability are more legitimate concerns.

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And we figure this before he played a game, I mean, he has to be more clutch than Kobe at the line, Wade, James, Melo, Billups, Iverson, and Nash at the line.
Kobe, Billups, Nash, Dirk, then JJ. Those, IMO, are the five-clutchest free-throwers in basketball. Dwayne doesn't belong on the list. His FT% is good, but missed some big ones in the playoffs (ie. two gigantic FTs at the end of Game 6).

Considering all the venom JJ had to endure while playing at Duke, the opposing fans always rode him the hardest. His final year at Duke was off-year for him, yet his FT% (86.3) would have good for 11th-best in the NBA. No one in college had to shoot more pressure-packed free-throws than Redick (random people hating him, ACC games, NCAA tournament), and he still managed to shoot 90%. FT% in college translates to the pros (poor throwers stay poor, good ones stay good). So assuming he shoots 90% in the pros... I'd put him in or near the top-five.

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Besides, I don't see how clutch free throws would matter. To be able to shoot free throws late in the game, he would have to drive and finish, or at least drive the ball against elite defenders and athletes. No ACC ref to bail him out.
Not always. If the Magic are up very late, the opposing team will have to automatically foul. And since JJ is about as close to automatic at the line as anyone, he gives his team a great chance to clinch a game with a lead late in the game. You don't think a horrid FTing team like San Antonio couldn't use Reddick to close out a game?
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Old 07-27-2006, 01:57 AM   #70
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Yea...putting Wade and Lebron on the list of clutch free throwers was way off. Both actually suck if you ask me. Kobe misses his share but that could be from the fact he's always the one taking them. I'd put him on there, but not at the top.
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Old 07-27-2006, 01:35 PM   #71
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He doesn't have to create anything. Rip Hamilton doesn't create his own shots, but he somehow manages 20ppg. JJ's defense and durability are more legitimate concerns.
Hamilton is 6'7 with long arms that can also defend. And even so, he is athletic enough to drive going right.

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Considering all the venom JJ had to endure while playing at Duke, the opposing fans always rode him the hardest. His final year at Duke was off-year for him, yet his FT% (86.3) would have good for 11th-best in the NBA. No one in college had to shoot more pressure-packed free-throws than Redick (random people hating him, ACC games, NCAA tournament), and he still managed to shoot 90%. FT% in college translates to the pros (poor throwers stay poor, good ones stay good). So assuming he shoots 90% in the pros... I'd put him in or near the top-five.
To shot free throws, you'd have to be fouled.

ACC refs bail Redick out so much.

Quote:
Not always. If the Magic are up very late, the opposing team will have to automatically foul. And since JJ is about as close to automatic at the line as anyone, he gives his team a great chance to clinch a game with a lead late in the game. You don't think a horrid FTing team like San Antonio couldn't use Reddick to close out a game?
Late in the game, Redick is useful.

However, defender and playmaker Ronnie Brewer would be more useful to win games. Can't have close games if you can't guard anyone.

Quote:
Kobe, Billups, Nash, Dirk, then JJ. Those, IMO, are the five-clutchest free-throwers in basketball. Dwayne doesn't belong on the list. His FT% is good, but missed some big ones in the playoffs (ie. two gigantic FTs at the end of Game 6).
What about the one Dirk missed in the Finals? Or the one's Wade made to seal the game?

Within five minutes, I'm more scared of Wade on the line since he'd actually get to it in a close game. Redick won't be able to drive and finish.
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Old 07-27-2006, 02:40 PM   #72
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I know you guys are debating who is "the most clutch" from the free-throw line, but wouldn't you like to have a guy like Ray Allen or Peja Stojakovic at the line?
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Old 07-27-2006, 03:03 PM   #73
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Well Peja is a known choker...

The thing is this. Redick is a clutch shooter. Problem I have with him is his ablity to actually make a difference late in the game outside of freethrows. People point out Hamilton and Miller as clutch shooters, but both were able to slash off the pump and were long and fast.

So what if Redick can make free throws during intentional fouls. Can he create and slash to draw fouls? Didn't show that in college, doesn't have the athletic ability.
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Old 07-27-2006, 03:50 PM   #74
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Yea, Peja had one big three against the Wolves a few years ago, but that's about it. Unfortunately for Ray, he hasn't played a big game in some time, so he hasn't been clutch because he hasn't had to. But Ray is definitely in the discussion.

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So what if Redick can make free throws during intentional fouls.
See, I think this is a highly important quality. How many games in a 82-game season are lost because teams couldn't close out by making their free-throws?

EDIT: Wow, I'm surprised by these numbers...

According to 82games.com, these are the most clutch free-throw shooters from '04-'05 season (minimum 20 attempts with five minutes or less in the 4th quarter with neither team leading by more than five points):

Player Team Clutch All
Stojakovic SAC 95% 92%
Iverson PHI 92% 83%
Okur UTA 91% 86%
Rose TOR 91% 85%
Croshere IND 90% 88%
Billups DET 90% 90%
Hamilton DET 90% 90%
Maggette LAC 89% 86%
Redd MIL 89% 85%
Nowitzki DAL 88% 86%

Might have to reconsider Peja...

http://www.82games.com/random12.htm

Some pretty interesting numbers.
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Old 07-27-2006, 06:29 PM   #75
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That is all well and good but what are Peja's numbers in the post season? He is notorious for not taking/making the big shots in the post season and that is when it matters the most. It is one thing to be able to hit those free throws at the end of a meaningless regular season game and quite another to do it in the playoffs when it means a lot more.
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