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Old 03-27-2006, 10:50 AM   #1
HibachiDG
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Default Are they seriously going to build a wall?

I phrase the title of this post like that simply because everytime I hear it, I can't believe it. The idea of a wall on our border with Mexico annoys me. I know that this is mainly because I have no problem with immigrants coming over to work and think we should do more for making these people citizens, if that is what they want or allow them to work here temporary, but I just can't stomach the concept of a wall with a border nation.

It's a ****ing wall, with another Nation, that just screams keep out.

The second part of this post is a question about the current legislation that they're trying to past. If they're making it a felony to be illegal in this country, are they going to actively go after illegals or is it more of a symbolic thing?
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Old 03-27-2006, 11:10 AM   #2
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Quote:
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
I think we should do whatever we can to keep illegal immigrants out. There are like 11 million of them and all they are doing is hurting our economy and country. All of those who come to our country should have to do it legally.

If that means we have to build wall to keep people from illegally entering our country, so be it. Extreme- Yes. Neccessary- maybe.

An illegal immigrant is one who:
-Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
-Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
-Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact.

When people from Europe came to America in the early 1900s, they didn't just land in America and walk right in. They had to go through inspections and then they could come into America and start a new life. These Mexan immigrants are no different.

I quotes the Statue Of Liberty, and I try to keep that in mind, and I think we still can follow that idea even if we build a wall.

A wall-- with some doors-- so that we can let ones who want to get in legally in.

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Illegal immigration causes an enormous drain on public funds. The seminal study of the costs of immigration by the National Academy of Sciences found that the taxes paid by immigrants do not cover the cost of services received by them. We cannot provide high quality education, health care, and retirement security for our own people if we continue to bring in endless numbers of poor, unskilled immigrants.

Additionally, job competition by waves of illegal immigrants willing to work at substandard wages and working conditions depresses the wages of American workers, hitting hardest at minority workers and those without high school degrees.

Illegal immigration also contributes to the dramatic population growth overwhelming communities across America--crowding school classrooms, consuming already limited affordable housing, and straining precious natural resources like water, energy, and forestland.
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Old 03-27-2006, 11:15 AM   #3
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You should have a problem with illegal immigrants, because they dilute the representation of a citizen. There are places - namely in Texas and California - where there are districts with so many illegal immigrants (upwards of 80% and 90% illegal), which ARE counted in the census BUT aren't allowed to vote, giving the legal citizens more representation in the House than a citizen in PA - that continues to lose representation because of illegal immigration.

Build that wall and let them enter legally.
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Old 03-27-2006, 12:23 PM   #4
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Man, is this thread gonna get ugly.

I don't hate illegals. I don't blame them for trying to make life better for themselves, most of them are desperately impovershed. It's funny how we romanticize people who try to float over on rafts but hope that Border Patrollers aim for the head when it comes to Mexicans crossing over. I don't believe that the script on the Statue of Liberty is how most people feel. I think most people feel, "We are the U.S. of f****in' A, no you can't join us unless we invite you, and if you try, then...aim for the head." Touching, isn't it?

Anyway. I am not an expert on immigration law, but I'm pretty sure that that INS won't accept anybody (unless they have familial ties to the US) permanently unless they have some kind of skill that we have in short supply...skills not available for these people to learn. Or the few they do except others, but they have to wait years or decades which they might not survive. Many, if not most of the illegals here are working for U.S. citizens, making sub-minimum wage, and doing jobs most Americans wouldn't do for fifty bucks an hour. Explain to me again why they are the ones that are scum?

And explain to me why the focus is on the illegal immigrant and not the U.S. citizens providing illegal work for them? I think the answer to that has to do with our national "Screw you, I got mine" attitude. The guy hiring undocumented workers and paying them less than minimum wage is not cool but a) at least he's "one of us" (a citizen) and b) He's an enterprising business owner! So we may not condone what he does, but he doesn't anger up our blood the way his workers do.

Anyway...I don't even know where I'm going with this. I'd like to see us focus primarily on this problem starting at the top (our immigration policies, employers, etc) rather than at the bottom (the illegals) but I am unfamiliar enough with the nuances to make any concrete suggestions.
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Old 03-27-2006, 03:21 PM   #5
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If you're going to let them in legally, like Ellis and jhuerbin both mentioned, why build the wall? If people can get in legally, they're not going to take the risks in coming over illegally. But, the problem is that it can't exactly be easy for them to become an American citizen legally if they're doing it illegally. Anyway, if as you guys suggested you're going to let them in legally, what is the purpose of an ugly wall that says a lot of negative about our country.

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You should have a problem with illegal immigrants, because they dilute the representation of a citizen.
I would be in favor of illegal immigrants being able to vote. But, if that isn't going to happen, I think they should still have representation. They are in the country living, afterall, illegal aside.
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Old 03-27-2006, 03:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Graham
I would be in favor of illegal immigrants being able to vote. But, if that isn't going to happen, I think they should still have representation. They are in the country living, afterall, illegal aside.
You have GOT to be F-'n kidding me! What a disaster it would be to let the illegal immigrants, the vast majority of whom I am sure can't speak a word of English, have the ability to vote. IMO, unless an individual has a vested interest in this or any other country, such as becoming a citizen of said country, they should not have ANY say in how the country is run via voting rights. I work with a lady from Germany who has been a resident alien of the U.S. for over 25 years, and she has no desire to obtain citizenship because her mom (who still lives in Germany) would be upset if she became a US citizen. Yes, she pays income taxes & social security (which she will be entitled to when she retires) but won't get to vote until if or when she decides to become a citizen. And rightfully so......
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Old 03-27-2006, 04:15 PM   #7
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Why should they not have representation if they are living here? Outside of the "well, they're here illegally, thereby breaking the law", I don't see much argument. I just think that if they're going to live and work in the country, they should have the same opportunity to have their voice heard. I think everything is made simpler if we open our borders and allow people from Mexico and other Latin countries to work and live here, but that hasn't been the case and has led to a lot of illegal immigrants. We can't go back now and make all of these people disappear.
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Old 03-27-2006, 04:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Graham
I think everything is made simpler if we open our borders and allow people from Mexico and other Latin countries to work and live here, but that hasn't been the case and has led to a lot of illegal immigrants. We can't go back now and make all of these people disappear.
The thing is, Doug, we HAVE made it relatively easy for them to live and work here, albeit illegally in many cases. And I do place a large portion of the blame on the powers-that-be here in the US. Some business owners take advantage of these people by paying them very little to do very hard, back-breaking work. I live in the Central part of the state, which is a rural agricultural-based area, and there are many Mexicans here (legal and illegal) who work in the orange groves and strawberry and vegetable fields. They do the jobs that we wouldn't even think of doing, and many of them are good, decent, law-abiding men and women. But they need to go through the proper channels, and if they want to have the benefits of living in this great country of ours (and voting rights), then they need to obtain the proper documentation to work LEGALLY in this country.
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Old 03-27-2006, 04:40 PM   #9
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I don't disagree with that, but the problem is that 11million illegal immigrants can't all go out and succesfully gain legal status in the country. If the proper channels were made easier for someone to work legally in this country, I would be all for it.
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Old 03-27-2006, 04:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Graham
I don't disagree with that, but the problem is that 11million illegal immigrants can't all go out and succesfully gain legal status in the country. If the proper channels were made easier for someone to work legally in this country, I would be all for it.
I see your point. And I don't think automatically deporting the illegal immigrants is the right thing to do, either. I also agree with you that building a wall at the US/Mexico border is ludicrous. I would much prefer one between the US & Canada Just kidding.........
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Old 03-27-2006, 08:41 PM   #11
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"Welcome to the United States of Mexico"...
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Old 03-27-2006, 09:39 PM   #12
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Send em all back! as someone who entered this country the legal way, I have no sympathy. Do something about the problems in you're own country, instead of coming here to make a tax free buck. Sorry, this is a sore point for me, especially living in a border state.
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Old 03-27-2006, 10:49 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Pimpbot
......instead of coming here to make a tax free buck.
That's about how much most of them make by hooking up with those "honest" American businessmen....

It's a lot more complicated then just about illegal immigrants....
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Old 03-27-2006, 11:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus
It's a lot more complicated then just about illegal immigrants....
I'm sure it is.... let's stop the bleeding (wall), and then figure it out from there.
Where do you sign up to volunteer your time to the INS?
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Old 03-28-2006, 12:49 AM   #15
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I have no problem with the immigrants in my area, some of whom are not legal, being here. They do jobs that most others don't want -- menial labor in packing houses, janitorial services, etc. They rent properties in our communities, helping to pay the property taxes for their landlords. They send their kids to our schools, and want them to learn our language.
This said, I would like to see them gain legal status so they do not live in fear of the INS.
We have seen, over the past couple of years, the tragedies of illegal aliens in our country. There have been many deaths due to poor conditions of their transportation.
I do not know the answer to this problem and hope someone does.
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