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Old 05-01-2008, 12:09 AM   #1
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Default Get your gun

This thread is started by the request of one of our non-political members.

Actually, my view on the right to bear arms might surprise some.

Originally, I was a strict gun control advocate. While I still advocate sensible gun control laws, I fully support the right to bear arms for a few reasons.

I think we live in a society where law obiding citizens are at risk, especially some who live in dangerous areas. At this point, guns are all over the place, so we might as well provide the average citizen with a fair chance at protection.

Having said that, there needs to be restrictions. First of all, people with mental problems should be restricted, and banned from purchasing guns.

Secondly, I think all gun owners should be forced to take classes (at their own expense) to learn about gun safety.

Gun owners should be required to pass tests both on gun safety and mental capacity.

And finally, if a gun owner's weapon kills someone in an accident or because it wound up in the wrong hands, the gun owner should be tried for murder. If you want to own a gun, take responsibility for it.

Thoughts?
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Old 05-01-2008, 12:26 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post

Secondly, I think all gun owners should be forced to take classes (at their own expense) to learn about gun safety.

Gun owners should be required to pass tests both on gun safety and mental capacity.

And finally, if a gun owner's weapon kills someone in an accident or because it wound up in the wrong hands, the gun owner should be tried for murder. If you want to own a gun, take responsibility for it.

Thoughts?

Very good points Fresh.

I agree everyone who owns or wants to buy a gun should have to go to a class or two in order to educate themselves on the finality that firing a gun produces. In Florida anyone who seeks a concealed weapons permit has to go though such training.

However if my house is broken into and my pistol is stolen while I'm on vacation and said weapon is used to murder someone why should I be punished?
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Old 05-01-2008, 12:32 AM   #3
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Very good points Fresh.

I agree everyone who owns or wants to buy a gun should have to go to a class or two in order to educate themselves on the finality that firing a gun produces. In Florida anyone who seeks a concealed weapons permit has to go though such training.

However if my house is broken into and my pistol is stolen while I'm on vacation and said weapon is used to murder someone why should I be punished?
Because a gun should be treated like a bomb. It is a deadly weapon. It should never be available to anyone but the responsible owner. Bring it with you on vacation. Can't bring it with you, lock it up.

Perhaps there could be a stipulation in the law. If you took necessary steps to lock up the gun, and it was stolen, you would be off the hook.

The purpose of the hypothetical law would be to ensure that gun owners take responsibility for their gun, not to punish a victim of theft.

But if your gun is stolen because it was sitting out on your front porch, you should be responsible.

Make the law sensible, but harsh. Too many people view guns as toys.
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Old 05-01-2008, 12:43 AM   #4
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Ok, I agree with that. "Oops I lost my gun" doesn't fly with me either. I have an 1100lb gun safe in my house that is locked with one key on my key chain and the other at my old ladies mom's house (even they don't know it's there:lol

Here's one for ya.

I'm in my house with my wife and I hear someone breaking into my house. He's in the living room and I'm scared, however he doesn't pose a threat to me. Can I shoot to kill or just let him decide what he wants to do?????
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Old 05-01-2008, 02:45 AM   #5
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A stolen gun & then the owner's tried for murder?

I wonder how long it would be before the next law/headline would be: stolen car used in vehicular homicide nets owner murder charge.

& since most people have the gun for home security & don't think an intruder would wait for them to get it out of a gun safe, odds are it would have a greater chance to get stolen. How many addendum's would have to be in a law to make sure innocent citizens are protected from over zealous prosecutors?

There's just too many different scenarios for innocent people to get nailed on a contrary interpretation. It's still about criminal activity & criminals for the most part.

Just a silly idea, CK
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Old 05-01-2008, 03:33 AM   #6
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I've always said nothing says get the fock out of my house like the sound of a shotgun being cocked. Bye bye.
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Old 05-01-2008, 07:55 AM   #7
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& since most people have the gun for home security & don't think an intruder would wait for them to get it out of a gun safe,
No one said keep it in a safe when you are home. If you are worried about intruders, keep your gun on your lap, or in the drawer next to you. Just keep it out of other people's hands. I don't think that is asking too much.

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There's just too many different scenarios for innocent people to get nailed on a contrary interpretation. It's still about criminal activity & criminals for the most part.

Just a silly idea, CK
Well, I believe that if you allow your gun to be stolen, you were neglegent to the point of "criminal activitiy."

If you don't think you can keep your gun out of other people's hands, don't buy one. That's the exact reason I don't have one. I'm not responsible enough.

Quote:
Ok, I agree with that. "Oops I lost my gun" doesn't fly with me either. I have an 1100lb gun safe in my house that is locked with one key on my key chain and the other at my old ladies mom's house (even they don't know it's there)

Here's one for ya.

I'm in my house with my wife and I hear someone breaking into my house. He's in the living room and I'm scared, however he doesn't pose a threat to me. Can I shoot to kill or just let him decide what he wants to do?????
I don't know. Tough call. I can see both side of this argument. What if it is just some lost kid who ends up in your house or a mentally retarded person who is lost?

At the same time, you should have the right to protect yourself...

Tough call, no opinion here.
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Old 05-01-2008, 09:47 AM   #8
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This is why I never owned a gun...legally.

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Old 05-01-2008, 11:42 AM   #9
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All I can say is I'm glad you're an SC member & not a lawmaker, CK...:thumbup:

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Old 05-01-2008, 11:44 AM   #10
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All I can say is I'm glad you're an SC member & not a lawmaker, CK...:thumbup:

Well, you know my ambitions right Tark?

So in your opinion, a gun owner shouldn't be responsible for anything that happens with his gun?
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Old 05-01-2008, 12:13 PM   #11
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Of course I do. I can see your passion of trying to eliminate the chance of guns that were irresponsibly kept but that's where a judgment call comes into play & the courts have historically proven that common sense isn't needed to render a verdict. What's responsible in one person's view isn't in another.

Problem in life is that there's not much that adheres to a black & white scenario. There's tons of variables out there that make a no excuse type murder charge ridiculous. Besides the fact that it completely changes what a murder charge really is, there's already laws on the books for dealing with those extreme instances if the courts want. Negligence is one right off the bat that would be applied when your gun is used in a crime.

One of the major problems I have with this country is the layering & layering of new laws when the standard ones used properly, case by case, are more than adequate.

Give it a black & white approach & that's where it gets squirrelly. What's securing? Is it a safe? Is it that when home & used for protection, it has to be in a holster on your person? How is a drawer next to you safe when you use the bathroom?

What if you're in your kitchen late at night getting a drink of water & someone breaks in your bedroom window where you're gun was conveniently in the drawer next to you? Do you race upstairs to ensure it won't be stolen or do you get out of the house for your own safety? & if it was stolen & used to kill someone, does that 65 year old man/woman really need to go to prison for murder? Or that single Mother of 4 who lives in a bad area?

Why are we fighting crime by attacking the law abiding people by having them subject to possible BS interpretations by some of these knuckle headed prosecutors/judges out there? Isn't having your home locked up enough? Do you now say to people that you have to be able to afford a gun safe to have the right of protection?

I can come up with an endless supply of scenarios that show more than reasonable responsible gun ownership but circumstances don't always go along with the program. Every case can be unique & should be judged on it's own merit. Your solution isn't a solution at all but more a passionate plea which is more than understandable. It just doesn't work tho...
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Old 05-01-2008, 12:28 PM   #12
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Wow, good post Tark.

I can't really disagree with anything you said.

You're right. As I stated it earlier, the hypthetical law leaves too much room for interpretation and prosecution of people who really did nothing wrong, and it could make the situation more dangerous in some cases.

Maybe I don't have the answer, but I still think we need something to hold gun owners more accountable for what happens with their guns.

For instance: if I own a gun and my child ends up taking my gun to school and killing a bunch of kids, shouldn't I be held accountable?

Or, if I own a gun and my kid's friend finds it and accidently shoots himself, shouldn't I be responsible?

I'm not sure how the law handles cases like this now, and if anyone knows I'd appreciate the education. But it seems to me that an irresponsible gun owner is just as bad as a drunk driver who kills someone.

Again, good post Tark. You "took me to school," as they say
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Old 05-01-2008, 02:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus View Post
Of course I do. I can see your passion of trying to eliminate the chance of guns that were irresponsibly kept but that's where a judgment call comes into play & the courts have historically proven that common sense isn't needed to render a verdict. What's responsible in one person's view isn't in another.

Problem in life is that there's not much that adheres to a black & white scenario. There's tons of variables out there that make a no excuse type murder charge ridiculous. Besides the fact that it completely changes what a murder charge really is, there's already laws on the books for dealing with those extreme instances if the courts want. Negligence is one right off the bat that would be applied when your gun is used in a crime.

One of the major problems I have with this country is the layering & layering of new laws when the standard ones used properly, case by case, are more than adequate.

Give it a black & white approach & that's where it gets squirrelly. What's securing? Is it a safe? Is it that when home & used for protection, it has to be in a holster on your person? How is a drawer next to you safe when you use the bathroom?

What if you're in your kitchen late at night getting a drink of water & someone breaks in your bedroom window where you're gun was conveniently in the drawer next to you? Do you race upstairs to ensure it won't be stolen or do you get out of the house for your own safety? & if it was stolen & used to kill someone, does that 65 year old man/woman really need to go to prison for murder? Or that single Mother of 4 who lives in a bad area?

Why are we fighting crime by attacking the law abiding people by having them subject to possible BS interpretations by some of these knuckle headed prosecutors/judges out there? Isn't having your home locked up enough? Do you now say to people that you have to be able to afford a gun safe to have the right of protection?

I can come up with an endless supply of scenarios that show more than reasonable responsible gun ownership but circumstances don't always go along with the program. Every case can be unique & should be judged on it's own merit. Your solution isn't a solution at all but more a passionate plea which is more than understandable. It just doesn't work tho...
By far THE POST OF THE YEAR!!!!!!

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Old 05-01-2008, 02:18 PM   #14
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For instance: if I own a gun and my child ends up taking my gun to school and killing a bunch of kids, shouldn't I be held accountable?

Or, if I own a gun and my kid's friend finds it and accidently shoots himself, shouldn't I be responsible?

I'm not sure how the law handles cases like this now, and if anyone knows I'd appreciate the education.
In Florida you ARE going to jail if any of the above happen.
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Old 05-01-2008, 02:19 PM   #15
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By far THE POST OF THE YEAR!!!!!!

Don't I get any credit for acknowledging the error in my original views, and giving tark credit for taking me to school?

:thumbup:
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