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Old 10-07-2004, 04:08 PM   #1
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Default Penny's opinion on Shaq and Kobe...Great Article

Quote:
www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/239067p-205155c.html

Penny: No Shaq costly for Kobe
He'll learn O'Neal's value the Hardaway

BY FRANK ISOLA

CHARLESTON, S.C. - Long before Kobe Bryant ever attended his high school prom, Penny Hardaway was having personality conflicts with Shaquille O'Neal. It was mostly petty squabbles between a young playmaker and a domineering center.
Though they were never best friends, Hardaway never wanted O'Neal to leave the Orlando Magic. But when O'Neal signed a free-agent contract with the Los Angeles Lakers before the 1996-97 season, the move was a defining moment for both players and both franchises. And now Hardaway believes that O'Neal's blockbuster trade to the Miami Heat last July will have a similar impact on Bryant and the Lakers.

"Shaq is the man," Hardaway said yesterday on the first day of the Knicks training camp at the College of Charleston. "I knew we had to have him to win. Kobe needed him to win. But me and Kobe are two different players. I was more about giving Shaq the ball every time down the floor and then I would look for my shot.

"Kobe is an awesome player who was going to get his points anyway. I still don't know why there was a struggle. Shaq is the man. He always will be."

O'Neal and Hardaway led Orlando to the 1995 NBA Finals, in which the Magic was swept by the Houston Rockets. Still, the two All-Stars were being hailed as the next great inside-outside combination. It was a good plan, until O'Neal decided to leave.

The move was a financial and professional stroke of genius for O'Neal, who won three championships in Los Angeles with Bryant as his superstar sidekick. In the eight years since Hardaway was abandoned by O'Neal, the 6-foot-7 swingman has appeared in 28 playoff games for three teams and has been past the first round just once. Over that same period, Hardaway suffered a devastating left knee injury which reduced him from a star to a role player.

Hardaway, now 33 and entering his first full season with the Knicks, has enjoyed a terrific career. But he can't help but wonder what might have been if O'Neal had stuck around Orlando for a few more years.

"My career would have been different if he had stayed because we would have won championships," Hardaway said. "When you win championships, that takes your career to another level. If he had stayed, I never would have left. We would have won at least two championships by now.

"I didn't want him to leave. I think he felt he wasn't appreciated by the organization enough. I couldn't do anything about it. I didn't talk to him about it and he didn't talk to me about it. I found out at the Olympics in 1996 that he had signed with the Lakers."

Los Angeles honored O'Neal's demand for a trade and sent him to the Heat, which is now an even stronger contender in the East. However, the consensus around the league is that Bryant used his leverage as a free agent to get Lakers owner Jerry Buss to remove Phil Jackson as head coach and trade O'Neal.

Hardaway agrees that O'Neal can be difficult to live with but he now realizes that ultimately the abuse is worth the reward. Bryant is about to find out the hard way.

"I thought both guys would leave at one point," said Hardaway, who thought O'Neal was destined for Dallas. "But this is how it goes with teammates. You have little quarrels now and then. But I know one thing; it's tough to give up a big guy like that."
I wouldn't have said it any better myself.
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Old 10-07-2004, 06:06 PM   #2
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Good find, Clipps

I'm gettin' a feelin' Shawn won't like this one too much.....
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Old 10-07-2004, 06:36 PM   #3
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Yeah that was an interesting read there Clipps...
of course you knew I was going to disagree, Tarkus
my feeling is that Kobe's a much brighter, longer-burning 'bulb' if you will, than Penny Hardaway... so the comparison doesn't really hold a lot of weight with me.
Anyway I am very aware that hardly anyone agrees with me on this, but all I can say for right now is..... wait and see
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Old 10-07-2004, 08:00 PM   #4
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Heeeeeeyyyyyy.....

Did you just call Kobe a "bulb"?????

NO unnecessary criticism of players or persons on the forum...

Thank You!
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Old 10-07-2004, 08:57 PM   #5
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Tarkus....
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Old 10-07-2004, 09:44 PM   #6
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The difference between Kobe and Penny is different, Penny need Shaq more than Kobe. He is more of a second option. Kobe is stronger physically and mentally as well. Besides, he lost Shaq for no one, Odom, Grant, Butler, and a 1st round pick isn't junk.

The Shaq was different as well, Shaq was a 25 year old young dominanting center, now he is a 33 year old star who has only a few more year in the league.
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Old 10-07-2004, 10:26 PM   #7
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Penny was a much better passer than Kobe in his prime, and could finish better around the hoop. Don't forget, before injury, Penny was shooting over 50% for his career from the field. Penny was a solid rebounder for a point guard. Still, I think Kobe is a more complete player able to handle the entire game better.

Neither of them would have a shirt on their back if it wasn't for Shaq though, that much they DO have in common.
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Old 10-07-2004, 10:27 PM   #8
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J/K, Shawn C'mon, you know that, don't cha???
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Old 10-07-2004, 10:47 PM   #9
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I do Tarkus, but let's let my soapbox presentation fade away. I have to take a more zen-like (although still hawkeye) approach with this board going forward.

and Shaq still wouldn't have his first ring without Kobe. "The 1-2 punch", they called it....
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Old 10-09-2004, 12:35 AM   #10
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Shaq never won until Kobe hit his prime, to say Kobe owes his whole career to Shaq is bogus. Is it easier to play with Shaq? Yes, but don't compare Kobe to Penny, they are different. Penny is better playing with a bigman, Kobe can play with or without him well. Can Kobe win without Shaq is the question.
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Old 10-09-2004, 02:50 AM   #11
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I agree it's hard to compare Bryant & Hardaway. They are completely different.

However, I disagree that Shaq didn't win until Bryant hit his prime. The Lakers didn't win until Phil Jackson & the triangle came aboard in 99-00....Couple that with Shaq playing 79 games as opposed to the prevous 4 seasons where he played between 49 & 60 games and you see why Shaq won. Kobe was in his 3rd season & in 99-00 & played in 66, starting 62.. That's prime??? C'mon...

Kobe was an intricate part once again to the success of the Lakers but get off this it was Kobe that made it happen. & while It's a stretch for anyone to say that Bryant owes his career to Shaq, it's not hard to say that Kobe has rings cuz of Shaq.

If there ever was an example of how Kobe faired as being the Man, it was the playoffs last year. By freezing out Shaq repeatedly & running his own plays, Bryant shot .413%. If it wasn't for a decent semis, it would have been worse.

I swear, this all-encompasing love of Bryant sure has a way of hiding all the stats. Everyone has a favorite player but that love can spawn all sorts of outrageous comments that aren't based on facts. Let's stay in reality, boys.....
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Old 10-09-2004, 06:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tarkus

If there ever was an example of how Kobe faired as being the Man, it was the playoffs last year. By freezing out Shaq repeatedly & running his own plays, Bryant shot .413%. If it wasn't for a decent semis, it would have been worse.
I would say let's take this upcoming season as the better example of how Kobe fares TRULY being the 'Man'...


Quote:
Originally posted by Tarkus
I swear, this all-encompasing love of Bryant sure has a way of hiding all the stats. Everyone has a favorite player but that love can spawn all sorts of outrageous comments that aren't based on facts. Let's stay in reality, boys.....
LOL :lol:
I think there's a lot more all-encompassing and outrageous hatred of the man on the board at this point (There's what, all of 2 Kobe supporters here? and I can't even count all the haters on both hands), which has little to do with basketball stats and everything to do with Kobe being the scapegoat for Phil/Shaq's departure, and his off-court legal problems,
which really aren't relevant to a discussion of the quality of his basketball skills.

Also to surmise that neither Kobe nor Shaq would have won a ring without each other is of course all speculation. No one can know how it would have turned out. However, they both now have a chance to prove how valuable they are as the undisputed leader of their respective teams.
I can't wait to see how this pans out
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Old 10-09-2004, 01:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
I would say let's take this upcoming season as the better example of how Kobe fares TRULY being the 'Man'...
Excellent point, Shawn...
Now impress that on Slink, will ya??

p.s. Between you and Slink. you're worth about 1000 Kobe haters. It's more than fair.... & besides, I'm not a Kobe hater who's relying on off the court antics. I base my view on performance only. The Jackson/triangle debacle comes into play when Kobe branched off & his stats didn't back up his move...
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Old 10-09-2004, 03:10 PM   #14
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actually I'm not counting you in the Kobe hater list, Tarkus... I think that it's quite possible that you may in all fairness have some good things to say about him if/when he performs anywhere close to what I'm thinking of for this upcoming season.

There are others on this board who I'm sure will find fault with him no matter how well he performs going forward.... but these like you said, are balanced out by people like myself who will definitely focus on the more positive aspects and much less on the negative.

And by the way, I'm very happy to have you on board with me Slinky
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Old 10-09-2004, 08:32 PM   #15
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As am I...
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