Go Back   Sports Central Message Boards > Miscellaneous Sports Discussion > Other Sports Blitz

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-03-2010, 12:19 AM   #76
Anthony
Moderator
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 8,372
Anthony is on a distinguished road
Default

It just so happens that I had a long chat on facebook last night with a long-time MMA promoter based in Hawaii - and he agreed with my thoughts about Rashad, virtually point-by-point (he also thinks Rampage will win at 114, and rather easily in fact).

And did you actually see Rashad's fights vs. Chuck or Forrest? Rashad was being pushed all over the cage in both of those fights, only to land one lucky shot to win. It was like an NFL team being outgained like 450 total yards to 150, but won because the other team kept making stupid, unforced mistakes.

By contrast, look at his win over Jason Lambert - who not for nothing has since moved down to 185 - at UFC 63. Indeed, that has been Rashad's only fight in the UFC where he has shown genuine physicality and aggressiveness. He's far more willing to stand and trade when he's not facing someone who's half a head bigger than he is (Lambert is 5'10").

And "muscle"? Rashad's "gynecomastia" is a stock joke throughout MMA cyberspace. He loses the moobs and he's down to 185 right there; and if Josh Koscheck - who is actually bigger than Rashad, can do 170 ...
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 03:26 AM   #77
Anthony
Moderator
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 8,372
Anthony is on a distinguished road
Default

Welcome, leebingate! :wavey:

And while I'm unalterably in favor of seeing MMA legalized in New York state - and for that matter, anywhere it still isn't sanctioned - I do shudder to think of what the behavior of the fans seated in MSG's "blue seats" (they're still called that, even though they were reupholstered years ago) at an MMA card might be like.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 05:47 PM   #78
Brad O.
1,549
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 792
Brad O. will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
And did you actually see Rashad's fights vs. Chuck or Forrest? Rashad was being pushed all over the cage in both of those fights, only to land one lucky shot to win.
Yes, I've seen them both. Rashad is a notoriously slow starter, and you're right that Forrest was winning before he got caught. I'm not so sure about the Liddell fight. I think at this point, Rashad has demonstrated the kind of punching power that forces opponents to be less aggressive, lest they share Griffin's fate.

Quote:
And "muscle"? Rashad's "gynecomastia" is a stock joke throughout MMA cyberspace. He loses the moobs and he's down to 185 right there
I suppose it's all relative. Certainly no one will confuse Rashad's physique with Ryan Bader's, but there's no way he can cut 35 pounds without sacrificing a lot of muscle. I spend a fair amount of time on MMA sites, and I've never seen anyone refer to Rashad's "moobs". I do see this picture a lot.



Besides, by your logic, 6'0" Roy Nelson should cut to 205, maybe even 185. If you're effective at your current weight -- and Rashad is very effective, a consensus top-5 LHW -- why make a drastic change?

For someone I thought was your favorite fighter, you seem awfully hard on him. Hey, maybe instead of cutting to WW he can come play for the Eagles...
Brad O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 01:28 AM   #79
Anthony
Moderator
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 8,372
Anthony is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad O. View Post
Yes, I've seen them both. Rashad is a notoriously slow starter, and you're right that Forrest was winning before he got caught. I'm not so sure about the Liddell fight. I think at this point, Rashad has demonstrated the kind of punching power that forces opponents to be less aggressive, lest they share Griffin's fate.

But he wouldn't be such a slow starter at 185 or 170 - and he didn't start slow against Jason Lambert.



Quote:
I suppose it's all relative. Certainly no one will confuse Rashad's physique with Ryan Bader's, but there's no way he can cut 35 pounds without sacrificing a lot of muscle. I spend a fair amount of time on MMA sites, and I've never seen anyone refer to Rashad's "moobs". I do see this picture a lot.

But is muscle a good thing if it's costing you a lot of height and reach (from a relative standpoint)? And carrying too much weight around is downright unhealthy; it increases your risk of all sorts of things later in life, including high blood pressure, diabetes, heart attack and stroke - from which Rashad is already at elevated risk as a black man.


Quote:
Besides, by your logic, 6'0" Roy Nelson should cut to 205, maybe even 185. If you're effective at your current weight -- and Rashad is very effective, a consensus top-5 LHW -- why make a drastic change?

"Effective" in the win-loss sense? Yes, at least thus far. But "effective" in a crowd-pleasing sense? To 99% of the MMA fan base, Rashad's fighting style is about as "exciting" as a mouthful of sawdust and water.



Quote:
For someone I thought was your favorite fighter, you seem awfully hard on him. Hey, maybe instead of cutting to WW he can come play for the Eagles...

I'm no more "hard" on Rashad than liberals have been "hard" on America for the past 60 years. As Edward R. Murrow iconically put it, you must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 08:21 PM   #80
Brad O.
1,549
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 792
Brad O. will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
But he wouldn't be such a slow starter at 185 or 170
That's pure speculation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
- and he didn't start slow against Jason Lambert.
And this is anecdotal evidence. We can't draw any meaningful conclusions from this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
But is muscle a good thing if it's costing you a lot of height and reach (from a relative standpoint)?
I think fighters need to look for a balance between height/reach and strength. Right now Rashad's punching power is what makes him more than just another wrestler, and sacrificing that would decrease his effectiveness, at any weight class.

FWIW, Fdor Emelianenko has height, reach, and weight disadvantages every time he fights. So does Randy Couture when he fights at heavyweight. Sean Sherk is shorter than most of the top bantamweights. Of the top 5 LHWs in Sherdog's most recent rankings, only Forrest Griffin (#5) is taller than 6'1". Rashad has freakishly long arms and isn't at a noticeable reach disadvantage against any of them.

I maintain you're trying to fix something that isn't broken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
And carrying too much weight around is downright unhealthy; it increases your risk of all sorts of things later in life, including high blood pressure, diabetes, heart attack and stroke - from which Rashad is already at elevated risk as a black man.
You want him to drop two weight classes because you're concerned about the long-term health effects on a 30-year-old man who works out regularly and has good cardio? I'd be more concerned about the health effects of trying to cut to 170 for weigh-ins.

Rashad's BMI is probably around 30 (5'11", 205 is 28.6), which is the peak of the standard "overweight" listing, but BMI is notoriously inaccurate for athletes. Should new Eagles RB Mike Bell -- whose height and weight are comparable to Rashad's -- drop 35 pounds to protect himself from high blood pressure, diabetes, heart attack and stroke -- from which Bell is already at elevated risk as a black man?

Albert Pujols' listed weight gives him a BMI of 28.7. LaDainian Tomlinson's BMI is 31.7, which qualifies as obese. Your man Leonard Weaver checks in at 33.9. All-pro DT Kevin Williams has a BMI of 36.9, and probably weighs more than the 311 he's listed at.

Compared to other athletes, Rashad is a normal, healthy weight for his size. His BMI is about the same as Randy Couture's was at heavyweight. Does Couture strike you as an unhealthy guy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
"Effective" in the win-loss sense? Yes, at least thus far. But "effective" in a crowd-pleasing sense? To 99% of the MMA fan base, Rashad's fighting style is about as "exciting" as a mouthful of sawdust and water.
What makes you think so? Rashad's early fights often looked like wrestling matches, yes, but that was four years ago. He's really developed his striking since then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
I'm no more "hard" on Rashad than liberals have been "hard" on America for the past 60 years. As Edward R. Murrow iconically put it, you must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.
I'm not accusing you of "disloyalty" toward Evans; I'm just surprised that your favorite fighter is someone you think is boring and 35 pounds overweight, who was "lucky" in the two biggest wins of his career.
Brad O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2010, 03:42 AM   #81
Anthony
Moderator
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 8,372
Anthony is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad O. View Post
I think fighters need to look for a balance between height/reach and strength. Right now Rashad's punching power is what makes him more than just another wrestler, and sacrificing that would decrease his effectiveness, at any weight class.

Being 5'9" and fighting at 205 is about as "balanced" as MSNBC's political coverage! And he looked pretty damn effective against Jason Lambert - indeed, that was far and away his best fight ever in terms of physically dominating an opponent; and if, as expected, he does lose to Rampage, I'd like to see Rashad immediately move down to 185 and fight Rousimar Palhares. Not only would Rashad utterly dismantle him, but he would even have the crowd on his side for a change, after what Palhares pulled in his most recent fight. And while virtually every light-heavyweight MMA fighter - at least the American ones anyway - played football in college, Rashad did not (he was strictly a wrestler at Michigan State) - because he simply isn't really that big.



Quote:
FWIW, Fdor Emelianenko has height, reach, and weight disadvantages every time he fights. So does Randy Couture when he fights at heavyweight. Sean Sherk is shorter than most of the top bantamweights. Of the top 5 LHWs in Sherdog's most recent rankings, only Forrest Griffin (#5) is taller than 6'1". Rashad has freakishly long arms and isn't at a noticeable reach disadvantage against any of them.

Sherk is also a known steroid user; and that raises another point: The shorter, more muscular fighters must constantly fend off innuendoes that they may be juicing (see Kevin Randleman - despite the fact that he has never tested positive for anabolic steroids of any kind). By contrast, how many people have accused Kendall Grove or Corey Hill of 'roiding?



Quote:
You want him to drop two weight classes because you're concerned about the long-term health effects on a 30-year-old man who works out regularly and has good cardio? I'd be more concerned about the health effects of trying to cut to 170 for weigh-ins.

Josh Koscheck doesn't seem to have any problems making 170; and since Koscheck has been listed as tall as 6'1" at times (as in one of his early free fights on Spike), he may be as much as four inches bigger than Rashad, and they both wrestled at 174 at the end of their college wrestling careers. You mean to tell me that an ectomorph at age 22 can magically transmogrify into an endomorph at age 25 (as Rashad weighed 220-225 while competing on Season 2 of The Ultimate Fighter)?



Quote:
Rashad's BMI is probably around 30 (5'11", 205 is 28.6), which is the peak of the standard "overweight" listing, but BMI is notoriously inaccurate for athletes. Should new Eagles RB Mike Bell -- whose height and weight are comparable to Rashad's -- drop 35 pounds to protect himself from high blood pressure, diabetes, heart attack and stroke -- from which Bell is already at elevated risk as a black man?

Albert Pujols' listed weight gives him a BMI of 28.7. LaDainian Tomlinson's BMI is 31.7, which qualifies as obese. Your man Leonard Weaver checks in at 33.9. All-pro DT Kevin Williams has a BMI of 36.9, and probably weighs more than the 311 he's listed at.

Once again, Rashad is 5'9" - not 5'11" (unless you actually believe he has mysteriously grown two inches since the age of 26); and I guess we'll see how long these guys all live - and jockeys, who have notoriously low BMIs, quite commonly get way up there in age (Johnny Longden, for example, died on his 96th birthday).

And Leonard Weaver and Mike Bell were far from my first choices as to who I would have liked to have seen acquired by the Eagles; I would have preferred Brandon Jacobs (who they could have drafted back in 2005 but instead picked Ryan Moats!) or Michael Bush infinitely more. Plus Brandon Jacobs makes more money in one season than Rashad Evans will in his entire UFC career, so for Jacobs (whatever his BMI happens to be) it's well worth the risk.



Quote:
What makes you think so? Rashad's early fights often looked like wrestling matches, yes, but that was four years ago. He's really developed his striking since then.

The Thiago Silva fight wasn't even four months ago; and one night (or day) when you're not busy, check out the various MMA-themed message boards (Sherdog, the UnderGround, etc.) and see what people have been saying about that fight (some have even gone so far as to say the fight should have been scored a draw because Thiago won the third round 10-8).



Quote:
I'm not accusing you of "disloyalty" toward Evans; I'm just surprised that your favorite fighter is someone you think is boring and 35 pounds overweight, who was "lucky" in the two biggest wins of his career.

But I don't find his fighting style boring! However, the vast majority of those in the coveted 18-to-34 demographic do. And I don't have blinders on: Both the Liddell and Griffin fights were like the Texans-Steelers game in 2002, if you remember that one.

And if you ever had the privilege of meeting Rashad, many of his family members, and his coaches and training partners as I have, you would appreciate that there is a lot more to him than what you see for up to 15 minutes every few (or more) months.

Just the same, every Rashad fight in the UFC except one has been a re-run of the movie Vision Quest, with Rashad as Louden Swain. I just wouldn't mind seeing Rashad as Brian Shute once in a while (as he was when he fought Jason Lambert). At some point Rocky degenerates into Groundhog Day.

If he wasn't such a total pinhead outside the cage, Brock Lesnar would be enormously popular, because that's what the targeted age group wants to see: Using both baseball and football equivalents, he's a home-run hitter or a team who comes after the quarterback on every play - not a "banjo hitter" or a team that plays "bend-but-don't-break defense;" in the view of the hard-core MMA fan base (you know, the ones who are smothered with tattoos, at least according to Bob Arum), the latter are seen as "soft" (remember how Brad Daugherty was tormented throughout his basketball career with that epithet?), or even borderline "cheaters" (indeed, most fans want to see the UFC implement PRIDE's old "yellow card" system).

Last edited by Anthony; 04-08-2010 at 03:52 AM.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2010, 06:13 PM   #82
Brad O.
1,549
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 792
Brad O. will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
And while virtually every light-heavyweight MMA fighter - at least the American ones anyway - played football in college, Rashad did not
Really? How many current top-10 LHWs played college football?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
The shorter, more muscular fighters must constantly fend off innuendoes that they may be juicing
You're implying that Rashad should lose 35 pounds so he won't be accused of steroid use? Even though he's been in the sport for years and has never faced that kind of accusation, including when he was the UFC LHW champ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Once again, Rashad is 5'9" - not 5'11"
Look, almost everyone in the UFC is listed an inch or two taller than they really are. We all know Shane Carwin is not 6'5". Rashad has gone nose-to-nose with Rampage (listed at 6'1") more than once, and there's not an obvious height difference between them. Yeah, 'Page probably has an inch or two on him. I don't think it's a big deal. Forrest Griffin is a huge 205-er, but seeing Rashad and Forrest didn't look nearly the same as Roy Nelson and Stefan Struve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
and I guess we'll see how long these guys all live - and jockeys, who have notoriously low BMIs, quite commonly get way up there in age (Johnny Longden, for example, died on his 96th birthday).
Are you familiar with the concept of anecdotal evidence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Plus Brandon Jacobs makes more money in one season than Rashad Evans will in his entire UFC career, so for Jacobs (whatever his BMI happens to be) it's well worth the risk.
I guess that depends on whether you value money more than life. Apparently you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
]The Thiago Silva fight wasn't even four months ago; and one night (or day) when you're not busy, check out the various MMA-themed message boards (Sherdog, the UnderGround, etc.) and see what people have been saying about that fight (some have even gone so far as to say the fight should have been scored a draw because Thiago won the third round 10-8).
I'm a member of the Sherdog forums and I'm familiar with the UG. MMA fans say stupid s*** all the damn time, about every single fighter who gets onto a televised card. Either you and I have very different feelings about the Thiago Silva fight, or you're trolling to pretend that we do, and I'm done talking about it. It's not getting anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
I don't find his fighting style boring! However, the vast majority of those in the coveted 18-to-34 demographic do.
Could you link to the survey for me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
And I don't have blinders on: Both the Liddell and Griffin fights were like the Texans-Steelers game in 2002, if you remember that one.
I still disagree about the Liddell fight; it was close. Griffin was winning because he was more aggressive, and that aggression ultimately cost him the fight. Rashad is a good counter-puncher, and I believe his demonstrated punching power will discourage future opponents from using Griffin's strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
And if you ever had the privilege of meeting Rashad, many of his family members, and his coaches and training partners as I have, you would appreciate that there is a lot more to him than what you see for up to 15 minutes every few (or more) months.
I think Rashad made a positive impression during his coaching stint on TUF. And yes, I've heard that he's a very sweet guy in person.
Brad O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 01:33 AM   #83
Anthony
Moderator
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 8,372
Anthony is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad O. View Post
Really? How many current top-10 LHWs played college football?
Why draw an artificial line at current top 10? I know Keith Jardine did, and I know Seth Petruzelli did, for instance (and not for nothing, but I've met both of them. Have you ever met either of them?). And how many LHW MMA fighters wrestled at 165 and 174 lbs. in college? [Two actually: Kevin Randleman and Rashad - so maybe this is some kind of black thing? ]


Quote:
Look, almost everyone in the UFC is listed an inch or two taller than they really are. We all know Shane Carwin is not 6'5". Rashad has gone nose-to-nose with Rampage (listed at 6'1") more than once, and there's not an obvious height difference between them. Yeah, 'Page probably has an inch or two on him. I don't think it's a big deal. Forrest Griffin is a huge 205-er, but seeing Rashad and Forrest didn't look nearly the same as Roy Nelson and Stefan Struve.

Did you see this week's Ultimate Fighter episode? Both Kyle Noke (who I have also met, by the way) and Clayton McKinney were listed at 6'2"; obviously somebody is fibbing as McKinney is like 4 inches taller than Noke (and wouldn't you know - Kyle Noke is a Greg Jackson fighter too!)



Quote:
Are you familiar with the concept of anecdotal evidence?

Yes: It means anything you disagree with.



Quote:
I guess that depends on whether you value money more than life. Apparently you do.

I also value strength, courage and toughness a lot more than you do - and fighters like Rashad are seen as "soft," just like liberals are (of course the latter is as the result of 60 years of evidence that is anything but "anecdotal" - and now they want to emasculate our nuclear capabilities).



Quote:
I'm a member of the Sherdog forums and I'm familiar with the UG. MMA fans say stupid s*** all the damn time, about every single fighter who gets onto a televised card. Either you and I have very different feelings about the Thiago Silva fight, or you're trolling to pretend that we do, and I'm done talking about it. It's not getting anywhere.

It's not my feelings on the fight - but it is the feelings of so many with whom I've interacted; and while they may be "stupid," they purchase the lion's share of the tickets and the PPVs, so for Dana White etc., it's a case of "they buy my bread, their song I sing."



Quote:
Could you link to the survey for me?
I've been to enough live events - four UFC and two Strikeforce since 2006 - and I've seen with my own eyes, and heard with my own ears, what happens in the crowd every time the action during any fight deviates from straight stand-up (and objects were literally hurled at the cage during the Jake O'Brien-Heath Herring fight on the same card as Rashad's win over Sean Salmon, which I attended).



Quote:
I still disagree about the Liddell fight; it was close. Griffin was winning because he was more aggressive, and that aggression ultimately cost him the fight. Rashad is a good counter-puncher, and I believe his demonstrated punching power will discourage future opponents from using Griffin's strategy.

My main point is that Rashad will never get the respect and approval that is clearly due him if he continues to be regarded as someone who fights like Betty White, as per that Snickers commercial. But what would his fighting style be at a smaller weight class? We may very well find out, unless he pulls off an upset at UFC 114 that would be at least as big as had Butler won Monday.




Quote:
I think Rashad made a positive impression during his coaching stint on TUF. And yes, I've heard that he's a very sweet guy in person.

Take it from someone who would know: "Sugar" is not an idle nickname!

Last edited by Anthony; 04-09-2010 at 03:39 AM.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 07:44 PM   #84
Brad O.
1,549
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 792
Brad O. will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Why draw an artificial line at current top 10? I know Keith Jardine did, and I know Seth Petruzelli did, for instance (and not for nothing, but I've met both of them. Have you ever met either of them?). And how many LHW MMA fighters wrestled at 165 and 174 lbs. in college? [Two actually: Kevin Randleman and Rashad - so maybe this is some kind of black thing? ]
I just thought top-10 was an easy starting point. In thinking of the top North American LHWs, I'm not aware that any of them played college football, much less "virtually all" of them. Evans, Rampage, Griffin, Bader, Jon Jones, Couture, Franklin, Vera, Hamill... did any of those guys play football in college? And of course, as you noted, none of the Brazilians did.

And I've never met any major MMA fighter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Did you see this week's Ultimate Fighter episode? Both Kyle Noke (who I have also met, by the way) and Clayton McKinney were listed at 6'2"; obviously somebody is fibbing as McKinney is like 4 inches taller than Noke (and wouldn't you know - Kyle Noke is a Greg Jackson fighter too!)
I did see the episode. I didn't notice the height difference, though I'm sure you're right. It was a pretty short fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Yes: It means anything you disagree with.
No, Anthony, it has a set definition which is beyond my power to manipulate according to my whims. Furthermore, here's how easy it would have been to find out: this is from Wikipedia.
Quote:
Evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence. For example "my grandfather smoked like a chimney and died healthy in a car crash at the age of 99" does not disprove the proposition that "smoking markedly increases the probability of cancer and heart disease at a relatively early age". In this case, the evidence may itself be true, but does not warrant the conclusion.
You're honing in repeatedly on a single match and claiming that it demonstrates something meaningful. But your saying that the Jason Lambert fight proves Rashad should be fighting smaller opponents, or that Johnny Longden proves people with low BMIs live longer, is equivalent to saying that a guy who smoked a pack a day and lived into his 90s proves smoking isn't bad for you. None of that proves anything.

This is as opposed to meaningful data or rigorous scientific study. Show me a published study which found that even among athletes with high muscle mass, BMI is a major indicator of health or longevity, and I'll concede the point. I don't necessarily think you're wrong, but I'm unconvinced and I'm not going to believe something just because, "There's this one guy who..." If you provide meaningful evidence, I think you'll find I'm fairly persuadable, and willing to admit when I'm wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
I also value strength, courage and toughness a lot more than you do
What makes you think so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
fighters like Rashad are seen as "soft," just like liberals are (of course the latter is as the result of 60 years of evidence that is anything but "anecdotal" - and now they want to emasculate our nuclear capabilities).
I suppose it's fruitless to hope you'll provide some evidence that people consider Evans soft? Nobody likes Lay and Pray, but I've never seen anyone (except maybe the Diaz brothers) characterize wrestlers as "soft".

And please keep your bizarre political trolling out of unrelated threads. We have a Politics & Religion subforum for that kind of thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
My main point is that Rashad will never get the respect and approval that is clearly due him if he continues to be regarded as someone who fights like Betty White
He's a consensus top-5 light heavyweight. I think he's getting almost exactly the respect he deserves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
But what would his fighting style be at a smaller weight class? We may very well find out, unless he pulls off an upset at UFC 114 that would be at least as big as had Butler won Monday.
The odds I've seen show Rashad as a very slight underdog, +105 to +130.
Brad O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 09:00 AM   #85
Anthony
Moderator
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 8,372
Anthony is on a distinguished road
Default

All right, maybe I've gone a bit too far during the course of this discussion; but am I wrong to wish Rashad would adopt a different style of fighting - any more than I'm wrong in wishing the Eagles would play a different style of football?

Meanwhile, within a 24-hour span, Josh Burkman won his fight in Utah, Sean McCorkle won his fight in Indiana - and to top it all off, Frankie Edgar won his fight in New Jersey.

Who said there was no "home-cage advantage" in MMA?

And LOL @ everybody who is turning Anderson Silva's hijinks last night into MMA's version of the Catholic Church sex-abuse scandal.

Last edited by Anthony; 04-12-2010 at 08:02 AM.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2010, 04:33 PM   #86
Brad O.
1,549
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 792
Brad O. will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Meanwhile, within a 24-hour span, Josh Burkman won his fight in Utah, Sean McCorkle won his fight in Indiana - and to top it all off, Frankie Edgar won his fight in New Jersey.

Who said there was no "home-cage advantage" in MMA?
I think Edgar's fight was actually in the UAE. But isn't Kurt Pellegrino from NJ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
And LOL @ everybody who is turning Anderson Silva's hijinks last night into MMA's version of the Catholic Church sex-abuse scandal.
Personally, I'm pretty lit up about it. Silva's performance was disrespectful -- to Maia, to the fans, to the sport. He didn't come to fight. In fact, he actually lost on my card:

Round 1: Silva 10-9
Round 2: Silva 10-9
Round 3: 10-10
Round 4: Maia 10-9
Round 5: Maia 10-8

Maia 48-47

I know Maia didn't land a lot of strikes in that fifth round, but he was aggressive the whole time, and Silva absolutely refused to engage. To me, it looked the same as Kalib Starnes vs. Nate Quarry, which one judge scored 30-24 (10-8 each round) for Starnes' refusal to engage. Points are awarded for "striking, grappling, aggression, and octagon control", and Silva, in the fifth round, displayed none of those, unless you count running around the ring as "octagon control".

Bottom line, I don't see Silva as a fighter any more. I didn't think it could get worse than the Thales Leites fight, which was a farce. But that was partially Leites' fault. Maia came to fight, and Silva refused to play the game. Why would anyone pay to watch him do that? We should just have him fight Antonio McKee and be done with it.

Also, I don't have a problem with Frankie Edgar's win, but have you read Douglas Crosby's response to the outrage over his 50-45 scorecard? It's the most over-the-top, self-indulgent piece of crap I've ever read in my life.
Brad O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 12:06 AM   #87
Anthony
Moderator
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 8,372
Anthony is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad O. View Post
I think Edgar's fight was actually in the UAE. But isn't Kurt Pellegrino from NJ?

I'll send you a postcard from Abu Dhabi, New Jersey, while I'm in that area - as I will be for two weeks, starting this coming Sunday.

But when you get a chance, check out Sean McCorkle's fights on YouTube. Now that's a fighting style!



Quote:
Personally, I'm pretty lit up about it. Silva's performance was disrespectful -- to Maia, to the fans, to the sport. He didn't come to fight. In fact, he actually lost on my card:

Round 1: Silva 10-9
Round 2: Silva 10-9
Round 3: 10-10
Round 4: Maia 10-9
Round 5: Maia 10-8

Maia 48-47

I know Maia didn't land a lot of strikes in that fifth round, but he was aggressive the whole time, and Silva absolutely refused to engage. To me, it looked the same as Kalib Starnes vs. Nate Quarry, which one judge scored 30-24 (10-8 each round) for Starnes' refusal to engage. Points are awarded for "striking, grappling, aggression, and octagon control", and Silva, in the fifth round, displayed none of those, unless you count running around the ring as "octagon control".

Bottom line, I don't see Silva as a fighter any more. I didn't think it could get worse than the Thales Leites fight, which was a farce. But that was partially Leites' fault. Maia came to fight, and Silva refused to play the game. Why would anyone pay to watch him do that? We should just have him fight Antonio McKee and be done with it.

Also, I don't have a problem with Frankie Edgar's win, but have you read Douglas Crosby's response to the outrage over his 50-45 scorecard? It's the most over-the-top, self-indulgent piece of crap I've ever read in my life.

The usual forums appear to be about evenly divided over Anderson Silva's actions; and should Rampage indeed win at UFC 114 (and why should he be favored at all when he lost to Forrest while Rashad beat him?), the obvious "solution" to the Silva "problem" is to "trade" him to 205 for Rashad!

Last edited by Anthony; 04-13-2010 at 12:12 AM.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2010, 05:00 AM   #88
Brad O.
1,549
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 792
Brad O. will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
But when you get a chance, check out Sean McCorkle's fights on YouTube. Now that's a fighting style!
I'll have a look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
should Rampage indeed win at UFC 114 (and why should he be favored at all when he lost to Forrest while Rashad beat him?), the obvious "solution" to the Silva "problem" is to "trade" him to 205 for Rashad!
The problem is that Lyoto Machida and Little Nog both train with Anderson Silva. If three of the top contenders in a weight class won't fight each other, match-making gets awfully tough. More likely that Silva moves up to HW, IMO. I realize that means Big Nog and JDS, but I believe he and Soares have spoken openly about the possibility. And as much as I love Big Nog, I think he's probably finished as a serious title contender. He looked great against Randy, and awful against Mir and Velasquez.
Brad O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2010, 03:21 AM   #89
Anthony
Moderator
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 8,372
Anthony is on a distinguished road
Default

Are you watching The Ultimate Fighter, Brad?

And if so, what do you think of Jamie Yager?
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2010, 11:46 PM   #90
Brad O.
1,549
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 792
Brad O. will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Are you watching The Ultimate Fighter, Brad?

And if so, what do you think of Jamie Yager?
Junie Browning II. It seems like he's going out of his way to antagonize people. And he has good kicks.

Actually, Junie didn't seem to be constantly looking for a (non-sanctioned) fight the way Jamie is. What do you think about him?

btw, I did check out three Sean McCorkle fights on YouTube, but I don't think I was struck the way you were. He's a huge guy, and he's obviously got some power, but the matches I saw were mostly clinching and laying on top of dudes. He does have impressive finishing power in his ground and pound, but I didn't see anything in the way of stand-up, and his grappling didn't appear to be anything special. He's very good at using his size. Is he from the Bay Area?
Brad O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OFFICIAL SCMB College Football Pick'em thread, week 1 KevinBeane College Football 21 09-05-2005 03:44 PM
The Official Joke Thread Zinzey16 The Lounge 20 03-05-2005 05:24 AM
The Official Hilarious Picture Thread Marc The Lounge 31 07-26-2003 12:36 AM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:45 PM.