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Old 06-15-2005, 01:18 AM   #16
franky
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clipps
Kobe + Phill =

(open links in order)






TRAINWRECK

LOL... great stuff. Sometimes pictures do tell a story, don't they.
This will be the first time Phil has coached a team without a 98.5 percent chance of winning an NBA title.
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Old 06-15-2005, 01:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doug Graham
Yeah...riggggggght.

Proven as in Michael Jordan? Proven as in Shaq and Kobe?

Jackson is a below average coach, fine, maybe he's average at best, that happened to coach people that were destined for great things.

He got flat out destroyed in the coaching category when he went up against Larry Brown...lol, twice actually as Brown out-coached him in the Sixers/Lakers series as well.
You're certainly not the only one with that opinion, but let's take a look at how almost 30,000 NBA fans responded today on the ESPN NBA Phil Jackson poll:
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File Type: jpg bestcoach.jpg (19.1 KB, 32 views)
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Old 06-15-2005, 09:31 AM   #18
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calling Jackson an "average" coach is downright silly. don't hate on him for his success. he was hired by the Bulls and later took over since he motivited the team better then Doug Collins, turned Jordan into the greatest all around player of all time and then chose to move to LA to win more rings, so what? people talk like somehow this hurts his résumé as a coach because he hasn't had bad seasons.
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Old 06-15-2005, 11:43 AM   #19
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OK for all you Phil haters it is ridicoulus. Yea he won with great players but name one other coach that has ever won a championship with Jordan, Pippen, Shaq or Kobe. Exactly.
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Old 06-15-2005, 01:38 PM   #20
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Thanks, shawndo, good job making an argument. I might be wrong, but hey, I'm formulating opinions and can back them up. You just pointed out a poll. What's that do for anything?

blackdogsong, I don't think it hurts his resume to not have bad seasons, I just don't think it helps to not coach average or bad teams. Would the Bulls not have won those Titles with a different coach? Give me a break. Of course they would have. Would Kobe and Shaq not have won three Titles? With a better coach, they would have won four.

buckeye, Brown definitely out coached Jackson in that Series because the Sixers were IN the Series.

Game 1, the Sixers won, Brown out coached Jackson.

Game 2 and 3, Sixers were close, but buckeye, the reality is that the Lakers were the better team and for the Sixers to be THIS close, was mainly because of Brown's coaching. Game 2, Iverson went to the line like THREE times, was getting absolutely nothing in terms of calls and they easily could have collapsed in that game and gone to the papers the next day like the Pistons did in the Heat series, but they didn't.

Game 4 was Shaq dominated and Game 5 was the realization that the Lakers were going to win.

Jackson, like usual, had very little, if anything, to do with the Lakers getting wins.
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Old 06-15-2005, 02:16 PM   #21
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but people are talking like it's Phil's fault and hold it against him and his legacy that coached the Bulls and the Lakers. he was offered the Bulls job why not take it? he made it to the playoffs without Jordan in 93-94 along w/ a winning record. he is a great coach who worked with great players to create great teams.
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Old 06-15-2005, 03:15 PM   #22
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Hey Doug other coaches had Kobe and shaq together which equalled zero titles come on give the man credit
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Old 06-15-2005, 05:00 PM   #23
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i think people fail to realize how important a coach is to a team. jordan and pippen would not have won titles w/ a average coach that people are somehow claiming phil jackson is.
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Old 06-15-2005, 05:12 PM   #24
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I am not inferring that he is by any means an average coach. He guided both the Bulls and Lakers into some tough playoff situations and come out on top, and made them champions and some coaches probably couldn't have done this, even with the likes of Jordan, Pippen, Kobe and Shaq. It just seems like he has only taken a job in the past when he has had a Royal Flush in his hands (so to speak), so I'm finding this a little surprising.
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Old 06-15-2005, 05:13 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by buckeyefan78
Lakers still have a team?

#99...

Who is on the side of Hotel Figueroa right now?
Last I saw, it was James Worthy/Kareem/Kurt Rambis. Going for the whole goggle/eye-wear thing, you see. (I know, lame).

Couple things...

1. Phil Jackson is the Lakers big move this year Marc Stein has the reasons why. While Phil is a winner, it simply can not be disputed that his hiring wasn't primarly driven by ticketsales. He's the only guy the fans of Los Angeles would accept on the sideline.

2. I don't know what all this crap about Jackson being a bad coach is. It's absolutely absurd. And to use a the 2001 Finals as an example of this is, well, pretty ridiculous. I mean, the Lakers did win that series. And you know what? Philly were the Eastern Conference champs. Isn't it expected of them to at least be in the Finals? Otherwise, what good are they? I seem to remember Allen Iverson dropping - what was it - 48 in game one? If I were to use Doug's logic, I would think that Allen Iverson was the only reason Philly got to the Finals that year.

You do realize that it was Jackson's system and guidance that propelled MJ to the next level, right? You think Jordan learned how to be a team player all by himself? Fact is Michael, Scottie, Shaq, and Kobe have a grand total of zero rings without Jackson at the helm. Now, I don't expect (and neither does Phil) to see this team as it currently stands back in the Finals in three years (roster needs a serious overhaul and Phil made specific mention of that in his press conference). Making the playoffs next season is probably a stretch, though you can absolutely count on the Lakers playing more competitive basketball and actually playing DEFENSE (a hallmark of all Phil Jackson teams). They'll grab about 44 wins next year, but year two is when they'll certainly make the playoffs.
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Old 06-15-2005, 05:31 PM   #26
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Jackson's triangle offense w/ the Bull's won 6 times without a high profile big man or point guard- that is impressive.

Quote:
It just seems like he has only taken a job in the past when he has had a Royal Flush in his hands
when he took the job as an assistant w/ the Bulls they were on the merge of being a great team, but it was not until he ran the show did it all come together.

i think it's admirable the Zen Master is coming back to the Lakers and this time he doesn't even expect to win a title. he just wants to coach (and get paid) i think he will find it more rewarding to help rebuild them then to win another ring.
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Old 06-15-2005, 05:39 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doug Graham
Thanks, shawndo, good job making an argument. I might be wrong, but hey, I'm formulating opinions and can back them up. You just pointed out a poll. What's that do for anything?

That was meant to demonstrate two things: 1) there are other highly-active NBA fans who share your particular view on this subject, but 2) they are in the vast minority. That's all.

Quote:
Originally posted by davematthews3
Hey Doug other coaches had Kobe and shaq together which equalled zero titles come on give the man credit
Dave, I think Doug has already burrowed into this stance and don't see him budging anytime in the near future... except maybe if Phil takes LA to the 2nd or 3rd round next year, then maybe.
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Old 06-15-2005, 07:37 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by #99

You do realize that it was Jackson's system and guidance that propelled MJ to the next level, right?
Jackson had nothing to do with MJ getting to the next level, in my mind. He was going to be there no matter what. They went from a good team that everyone knew was going to be special, to, gasp, a special team.

Also, I never said he was a BAD coach. Just an average one, leaning towards below average.

Quote:
That was meant to demonstrate two things: 1) there are other highly-active NBA fans who share your particular view on this subject, but 2) they are in the vast minority. That's all.
Sorry, I took it as you going: "you're in the minority, so you're wrong."
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Old 06-15-2005, 10:02 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doug Graham

Also, I never said he was a BAD coach. Just an average one, leaning towards below average.

Sorry, I took it as you going: "you're in the minority, so you're wrong."
Doug, have you read "The Last Season"? Phil's journal on the Lakers and includes some talk of the reasoning behind some of his strategies. While I do believe that he's a great coach, or at least WAS a great coach, there were several instances in the book where I felt his approach was not the best, and less than effective. Kind of like an older person unwilling to adapt to what works but just sticking with the old methods staunchly. So from that perspective, I can see your side. But I think Phil's learned a bit from being let go last year and taking a year off, I think he'll be back to greatness next season.

As for "you're in the minority, so you're wrong" :lol: actually it was more like "I think you're being a little too harsh on Phil, and here's the majority of 30,000 NBA fans who would back me up on that."
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Old 06-15-2005, 11:14 PM   #30
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#99...

Nah, that's pretty cool. Rambis, Worthy, and Kareem. I have a picture when they had Kareem, Wilt, and Shaq up there few years back. That was pretty awesome. Reason I ask is if they put up a Kobe/Phil pic, fill us in.
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