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Old 06-24-2002, 12:19 AM   #1
Clutch
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Default Smokescreen in Dunleavy

Is all the hoopla surrounding baby Dunleavy really true? Do league GM's really think the only two players available in the draft better than Dunleavy are Ming and Williams?

Butler, Gooden, Wagner, and Wilcox all seem to have more to offer in terms of immediate impact and long term value.

Dunleavy is nowhere near as good a player as Shane Battier was when he came out, and Battier was picked somewhere around the 6 or 8 spot. And Dunleavy has extremely limited upside. What's up, think Dunleavy is being used to cover true draft desires?
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Old 06-24-2002, 04:38 AM   #2
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I disagree with you. Dunleavy JR is far better than Battier was when he came out.

And I guarantee he'll have a better career the Battier has and will have.
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Old 06-24-2002, 09:18 AM   #3
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I actually agree with Clutch and disagree with Dre. I have NEVER been that impressed with Dunleavy and never felt he was good enough to go higher than middle first round. Let's put this into perspective. Dunleavy was barely the second best player on his team. On Duke, they went to Williams, then Boozer, then Dunleavy. He was praised for his "versatility," but I believe Kentucky's Tayshaun Prince is the much better player and especially more versatile.

Battier was the Player of the Year, led his team to a national championship, and was a tremendous leader coming out. Dunleavy has done NONE of that.

People, I don't see what everyone sees in Mr. Dunleavy.
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Old 06-24-2002, 01:20 PM   #4
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Ok first off Battier was picked 6th overall by the Grizzlies last season, and how is Dunleavy better? I mean in what aspects of his game is he better than Shane.... the only possible thing I can come up with is shooting, and Dunleavy is not gonna be wide open like he was in college from the creativity of Jay Williams dishing him the ball.

And espeically if Dunleavy goes to Golden State, they have no point guard to get him the ball in an open area or who can penetrate.

Battier is a better defender, rebounder, post up player, slashing wise they are even, leadership nod goes to Battier... Overall I would take a Battier anyday over Dunleavy.

I think many underestimate how much a Shane Battier means to a team. He is a intrical part to everything the Grizzlies do....watch a game of theirs sometime...he is their heart and soul...something Dunleavy will never be on a team in the NBA.

Now back to whether I think he is worth a top 5 pick, no but the NBA drafts on potential and this draft is a terrible one in my estimation. No big men coming out worth anything for one, Ming is trouble for any team that drafts him. And there may be only 2 true point guards coming out in this whole draft. So, given all these reasons Dunleavy is being put high on the list cause there is not that much great talent coming out with experience.

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Old 06-24-2002, 01:47 PM   #5
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I will have to agree with Dre. I think Dunleavy is a far better player then Battier was and is. Battier is a very solid defender, but he does not possess the offensive skills that Dunleavy does. Marc no offense, but I would take Dunleavy in a heart beat over Prince. As for being the go to player on Duke?????? Duke does not run a set offense, they play a freewheeling style of basketball(why do you think every HS player in the country wants to play there?) with any number of players having the greenlight to let go when ever they please. Boozer was the biggest recipient of this. Williams, Dunleavy and Duhon relieved all pressure from Boozer by being the focus of the defense. Nobody in college basketball got more uncontested drop offs because of who he played with. So there was no first or second option at Duke. Dunleavy was free to do what he pleased. He knows the game and plays more intelligent then any other player in this draft. He is athletic. He can stretch a defense and can run the floor with anyone, he should fit in very nicely with the uptempo pace of Golden St. Defense will be a question, it is his weakness, but there is no complete player in this draft. From what I see, he has far fewer qusetion marks then the others in this draft.

Now let's look at the other players originally mentioned by Clutch.
Butler had a very good NCAA tourney this year, but before that was just a good, not great player. He has shown flashes of athleticism, but has never maintained it. He has shown an ability to hit jumpers, but as of yet, has yet to be consistent. There is also the character issue with this ex-inmate. He is no saint and while the media likes to say look how this guy has overcome his many SELF INDUCED problems, he is well known as a punk and was far from the most popular guy on campus at UCONN. One other thing, he was the target of the other teams gameplan for attacking UCONN. He is a very weak defender.

Drew Gooden. If people really think this guy is going to be a factor as a small forward they are sadly mistaken. He does not have the range on his 'J' or the foot speed to play on either end of the floor at that position. As for playing power forward, he should be a solid pro, but he wil not be a star and will have trouble playing the physical players at that position. In the NCAA tourney alone he was pushed around by the Maryland front court and this was college not the NBA.

Dejaun Wagner. He is intriguing. The question is, if he wants to play the two guard, can he be another Iverson or Francis? For the most part the 2 guards in the NBA are not this small. If he is going to be a 2 in the NBA he really has to improve his lousy jumper and learn what a good shot is, he is clueless in this area. As for playing the point, does he have the mentality for it? Or will he be just another Marbury, a gunner who has no idea how to make those around him better. He did nothing as far as making his teammates better at Memphis. He couldn't even get them to the NCAA tourney. Playing the point takes a certain mentality, he has yet to show he has that mentality.

Chris Wilcox is a physical monster. Clearly the best NBA body in this draft. He will rebound with anyone, but we have seen so little of him. He was asked to do nothing at Maryland but pick up the scraps from Dixon and Baxter. He very well could be a great player, but knowone really knows. He looks to be a phenomenal athlete, but his performances in the pre draft workouts have been way up and way down. In a head to head matchup with a player this weekend he was torched. Right now he appears to be a player whi is strong and can jump, does he have any skills? He is really a huge unknown.

So that all siad, I really like Dunleavy and I will guarantee that he will have a very good rookie year. It's too bad he will be playing with a team that is half full of knuckleheads.
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Old 06-24-2002, 08:45 PM   #6
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#47, I'm sorry, but I'm still not sold on Dunleavy. I think he'll be the equivalent of a Keith Van Horn in the NBA - Dunleavy might be more creative off the dribble, but the two have similar styles, IMO. Time will tell us if he's a Christian Laettner (always there to prove not all former Duke "greats" instantly means NBA greats) or the next Larry Bird, like some of you think.

I watched quite a few Duke games - in fact, I attended the Duke/Kentucky game at Continental Airlines Arena last season. I was not and am not impressed with Dunleavy - I just feel he, if anyone, fed off Williams and Boozer.

I don't see where all this "upside" is coming from in regards to Dunleavy. What can he do that Tayshaun can't? I am biast (here we go again), but so be it. Prince has the entire game, as far as I'm concerned. He has national title experience, one of the sweetest shots in the game, point guard ball-handling skills (much better than Dunleavy, I might add), and a surprisingly effective post game.

Whether or not he will be able to utilize that part of his game in the more physical pros is unknown, but I'd take a guy who needs to bulk up and has talent over a guy who has no talent and the body - which, I might clarify, I am not referring to Dunleavy here, but in general. And it's not like Dunleavy is a monster physically.
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Old 06-25-2002, 10:00 AM   #7
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#47 I am from Memphis, and if anything you hit right on the head, then it was you assessment of Wagner. He can play either the point or the 2 guard, but as you said will he just be a run and gun player with no idea what he is doing or will he actually fit into a system. The one thing about Wagner is that he is willing to learn and try a system. He is not head set against giving the ball up and trying to make him teammates better. And the reason why he took so many illadvised shots last year is because noone on the Tiger team would step up and take a shot and he is the only one who had the guts to take them.

He did force way too many things, but his shot is not lousy. It was only lousy due to the bad shots he was taking. If he takes good shots and shots that are in the offense, then he is a very good shooter with tremendous range. Plus he is one of the better slashers in this draft. His upside is up there with any player who is going to be drafted this year, and he is willing to be a team player....but will he?

Chris Wilcox needs to get his head straight... that is all I have to say about him. If he could come to the court and play consistently every evening or day then he will be fine. He just gets involved in mental lapses and he makes very bad decisions as well. The thing is many of the guys that are going to be drafted make way too many mental and senseless errors.

If anything, Marc has some points about Prince.....He can post up, shoot the outside shot, has great touch, has long arms and has shot blocking ability at his particular position, has experience and has played with the best in college and stayed ALL 4 YEARS!!!!!

#47 your so right about Drew Gooden I totally agree with you, but I still disagree with you guys when you say Dunleavy is more valueable to a team than Battier is. I just don't see that in the whole realm of things that Dunleavy could contribute more than Battier does.

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Old 06-25-2002, 02:03 PM   #8
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I think Dunleavy should have stayed at Duke another year. He could have proved his leadership ability, added another year of experience, and given himself another year to add a little size. Dunleavy can shoot very well, and is a good defender, but he looks too thin to add much in rebounds or play in the paint in general. I think he needed another season at Duke to prove that he was not just good because Duke had Jay Williams and Carlos Boozer.
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Old 06-26-2002, 11:30 PM   #9
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It would seem as though I've been mistaken.
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Old 06-28-2002, 07:51 PM   #10
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Clutch, it is not that you are mistaken, we are all just expressing our opinions. It will take several years before we really know what happens and who was right and wrong regarding this.

But none of us are mistaken...........yet anyway.........lol!
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