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-   -   McCain's Pastor Disaster (https://www.sports-central.org/community/boards/showthread.php?t=19866)

CKFresh 05-22-2008 08:21 PM

McCain's Pastor Disaster
 
McCain's friend and political ally: "Hitler was sent by God."

Months ago, John McCain sought out the endorsement of Rev. John Hagee. He appeared with this man and gladly accepted the endorsement. Well, that all fell apart after an audio recording surfaced in which the preacher said God sent Adolf Hitler to help Jews reach the promised land.

McCain actively courted Hagee, who leads a megachurch with a congregation in the tens of thousands and has an even wider television audience. Former Republican presidential rivals also sought Hagee's backing.

Hagee has referred to the Roman Catholic Church as "the great whore" and called it a "false cult system." He also has linked Hitler to the Catholic church, suggesting it helped shape his anti-Semitism. And Hagee said Hurricane Katrina was God's retribution for homosexual sin.

----------------

As if that weren't enough....

McCain's Spiritual Guide: Destroy Islam

Televangelist Rod Parsley, a key McCain ally in Ohio, has called for eradicating the "false religion."

Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.

A politically influential figure in Ohio, Parsley could also play a key role in McCain's effort to win this bellwether state in the general election. McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister his "spiritual guide."

Parsley said:

"I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore."

Parsley claims that Islam is an "anti-Christ religion" predicated on "deception." The Muslim prophet Muhammad, he writes, "received revelations from demons and not from the true God." And he emphasizes this point: "Allah was a demon spirit." Parsley does not differentiate between violent Islamic extremists and other followers of the religion.

----------------------

Yes, McCain's SPIRITUAL ADVISOR has called for the destruction of the entire Muslim religion. At this point, John McCain has NOT renounced this disgusting human being.

How on earth can John McCain expect to have peaceful talks with nations like Saudi Arabia, or the new government in Iraq, when his "spritual guide" has called for the destruction of their religion?

Which evil dictator did Rev. Wright say was "sent by God?" Which group of people did Rev. Wright call for the destruction of?

Yeah, what goes around comes around....

Tarkus 05-22-2008 10:28 PM

Nifty thread title...:P

http://davidszondy.com/ephemeral/upl...gif-733114.png

McCain rejects endorsement from televangelist
Candidate calls Rev. Hagee's Hitler comments 'offensive and indefensible'

*************************************************


You knew it was coming, didn't 'cha?

I'd say that it's no more correct to 'blanket' blame McCain anymore than doing it to Obama. I know the passion some feel to defend their choice but it just goes 'round & 'round like a roulette wheel. Now the Republicans will brain storm on a return volley.

It just never ends...:rolleyes:

Anthony 05-23-2008 03:34 AM

But CK, where was your heartfelt sympathy for Catholics when those two female bloggers made those utterly reprehensible comments about the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, forcing John Edwards to fire them from his campaign?

As for Rod Parsley: WE ARE AT WAR! And the popular culture is bound to reflect that. Just to list the lines from political speeches, sermons, song lyrics, etc., that included remarks every bit as provocative about the Germans or Japanese during World War II would have required a book the size of the Philadelphia telephone directory ("A wood kimono for the Mikado/A mausoleum for Mussolin[i]" - so went a line from the song Der Fuhrer's Face). And while I'm not claiming that the Taliban, al Qaeda, etc., represents all Muslims, that is clearly the dominant strain within Islam at this point in time - and I for one don't want anyone who refuses to recognize this palpably obvious reality within 3,000 miles of the Oval Office.

CKFresh 05-23-2008 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkus (Post 280578)


McCain rejects endorsement from televangelist
Candidate calls Rev. Hagee's Hitler comments 'offensive and indefensible'

*************************************************[/CENTER]

You knew it was coming, didn't 'cha?

Yeah, I actually talked about this in the beginning of the the thread. It was the second Pastor, his "spiritual guide," that he hasn't rejected.

Quote:

And while I'm not claiming that the Taliban, al Qaeda, etc., represents all Muslims, that is clearly the dominant strain within Islam at this point in time - and I for one don't want anyone who refuses to recognize this palpably obvious reality within 3,000 miles of the Oval Office.
BULL****.

Over 98% of Muslims around the world are peaceful and have no intentions of harming other people.

Statements like yours are terrifying Anthony... "that is clearly the dominant strain within Islam at this point in time." Are you kidding me? It's no wonder this war will never end... With discrimination like yours, we will never find peace. Go ahead and scapegoat the entire religion for the acts of less than 2% of their people...

How much longer until we elect one who wants to eraticate the entire religion?

Tarkus 05-23-2008 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 280589)
Yeah, I actually talked about this in the beginning of the the thread. It was the second Pastor, his "spiritual guide," that he hasn't rejected.

& if I had had my head on straight when I first read that, I would have seen that.

Never mind...:o

CKFresh 05-23-2008 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkus (Post 280590)
& if I had had my head on straight when I first read that, I would have seen that.

Never mind...:o

:lol:

No worries.

Oh and that "nifty thread title" wasn't my creation... I stole that from MY "spiritual advisor," Keith Olberman :silly:

doublee 05-23-2008 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 280589)
How much longer until we elect one who wants to eraticate the entire religion?

You mean he currently does not reside in the White House already? :lol:

Tarkus 05-23-2008 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doublee (Post 280597)
You mean he currently does not reside in the White House already? :lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

CKFresh 05-23-2008 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doublee (Post 280597)
You mean he currently does not reside in the White House already? :lol:

:lol:

Good point. Then again, Bush has many Muslim friends.

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/pics/Is...hold_hands.jpg

He's an oil man remember. His enemy is not Islam, his enemy is progress.

Anthony 05-24-2008 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 280589)
BULL****.

Over 98% of Muslims around the world are peaceful and have no intentions of harming other people.

Statements like yours are terrifying Anthony... "that is clearly the dominant strain within Islam at this point in time." Are you kidding me? It's no wonder this war will never end... With discrimination like yours, we will never find peace. Go ahead and scapegoat the entire religion for the acts of less than 2% of their people...

How much longer until we elect one who wants to eraticate [sic] the entire religion?



Are you at all familiar with the honor code at West Point, which states that you will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do?

Virtually all Muslims either commit acts of terrorism or tolerate those who do - with, admittedly, the overwhelming majority fitting into the latter category (and even if this weren't the case, did you know that only about 10 per cent of the citizens of the Soviet Union were actual members of the Communist Party?).

Where are the voices from within the Islamic community denouncing not only the specific acts of the terrorists, but also the general cause they espouse - to rule the world?

Since such dissent is essentially never encountered - besides Salman Rushdie, who else can you name? - the jihadists are the dominant strain of Islam by default.

buckeyefan78 05-24-2008 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 280654)
Virtually all Muslims either commit acts of terrorism or tolerate those who do - with, admittedly, the overwhelming majority fitting into the latter category (and even if this weren't the case, did you know that only about 10 per cent of the citizens of the Soviet Union were actual members of the Communist Party?).

This is the most ignorant/myopic thing I've read in quite a long time.

To suggest the millions of Muslims living in absolute poverty condone the acts of Islamic terrorists is aloofness at its pinnacle.

CKFresh 05-24-2008 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 (Post 280709)
This is the most ignorant/myopic thing I've read in quite a long time.

To suggest the millions of Muslims living in absolute poverty condone the acts of Islamic terrorists is aloofness at its pinnacle.

Agreed.

It becomes quite terrifying when people start to make sweeping generalizations such as "virtually all Muslims..."

:rolleyes:

Anthony 05-25-2008 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 (Post 280709)
This is the most ignorant/myopic thing I've read in quite a long time.

To suggest the millions of Muslims living in absolute poverty condone the acts of Islamic terrorists is aloofness at its pinnacle.



It doesn't agree with your point of view; hence it must have come from a retard - synonym for a person who says or writes "ignorant" things.

That's really mature - I must say; but then again, I suppose it's every bit as mature as bombing school buses filled with little kids is courageous. :rolleyes:

But please enlighten me, since you're so much more intelligent than I am: Where are all these multitudes of Muslims - poor or otherwise - speaking out against the global-domination-seeking Islamofascist agenda? (By stark contrast, many of Israel's most vociferous critics - both in that country and this one - happen to be Jewish). Also, had you bothered to even read the ensuing paragraph, you would have understood that I was actually focusing on Islamofascism's goals, and not on its means - if not, then you must believe that there is no G-d, because it literally says so, right in the Bible! (Psalms 14:1 - however, the complete passage reads: "The fool hath said in his heart, 'There is no G-d'").

For example, if it were possible to take a poll of all the world's Muslims and asked them whether or not Israel has a right to exist, at least 99.9% of them would respond with a most emphatic "No" (but I'm sure a lot of them would be satisfied if the Jews were merely expelled from the Middle East and were resettled in Europe or America, and do not advocate genocide).

It is precisely this mongoose-cobra mentality toward the Jewish people that indelibly stamps Muslims as less than civilized. And not for nothing, but from Morocco in the west to Indonesia in the east, from Kazakhstan in the north to Somalia in the south, the sun physically never sets on the Islamic Empire. Yet they insist on depriving the Jewish people of a tiny state smaller than San Bernardino County - and that includes the so-called "occupied territories" self-defensively captured by Israel in the third of the about ten revanchist wars the Muslims have started since 1948.

And thank G-d people like you and CK weren't in charge of this country 65-70 years ago - since if that was the case, I'd be posting this in German or Japanese; and that assumes that the murderous tyrants who would be ruling over us, and the rest of the world, allowed just anybody to get on the Internet.

But getting back on the original topic (or does anyone even remember what that was?): The very existence of this thread is a classic example of a phenomenon Bill O'Reilly delights in drawing attention to: Using one person's bad behavior to justify someone else's bad behavior - as if John Hagee and Rod Parsley's rants somehow "cancel out" those of Jeremiah Wright.

CKFresh 05-25-2008 11:32 AM

Quote:

For example, if it were possible to take a poll of all the world's Muslims and asked them whether or not Israel has a right to exist, at least 99.9% of them would respond with a most emphatic "No"
Yeah, ask Native Americans if the United States has a "right to exist." When a group of people set up shop in the middle of your region, on land that you consider "holy," it usually doesn't end up in friendship...

Quote:

And thank G-d people like you and CK weren't in charge of this country 65-70 years ago - since if that was the case, I'd be posting this in German or Japanese; and that assumes that the murderous tyrants who would be ruling over us, and the rest of the world, allowed just anybody to get on the Internet.
And thank G-d people like you weren't in charge 65-70 years ago, because the Japanese and Germans would all be dead, in mass graves... Because you seem to blame all people for the actions of their leaders...

"The Germans allowed Hitler to come to power... let's kill all the Germans."

If you want to join in a holy war against the Muslims, you are no better than the small percentage of muslims that want to kill all westerners.

You are advocating blaming an entire religion, a religion that makes up 19.2 percent of the world's population, for the acts of a few thousand people. You are suggesting that the religion itself is the problem, and in turn implying that they need to be taken out.

Islam is not the problem - militants who blame everything on the west are the problem.

The western world is not the problem - bigots who blame an entire religion and threaten the Muslim world with genocide are the problem.

Dano 05-25-2008 11:37 AM

CK do you think this is enough to re-rail Johnny Mac?

CKFresh 05-25-2008 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dano (Post 280757)
CK do you think this is enough to re-rail Johnny Mac?

I'm not sure what you mean by "re-rail," (sorry, I'm just a kid :P).

I'm assuming that means, hurt his campaign enough to cause a Democratic victory... If that's what you mean, then no. I haven't seen much coverage at all on the "liberal" media. :rolleyes:

Also, I don't think many people find these words that offensive. As some posters here have shown, there may be a lot of people in this country that feel the religion of Islam needs to be "destroyed."

Tarkus 05-25-2008 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 280747)
The very existence of this thread is a classic example of a phenomenon Bill O'Reilly delights in drawing attention to: Using one person's bad behavior to justify someone else's bad behavior - as if John Hagee and Rod Parsley's rants somehow "cancel out" those of Jeremiah Wright.

**Segue Alert**

If you take this point that you just stated & amble over to the "Foot In Mouth" thread, we'll be on the same team after all. :thumbup:

Anthony 05-25-2008 11:57 PM

Well check out my latest post on that thread, Tarkus.

And as ugly as this discussion has turned at times, it serves as a veritable microcosm of why Barack Obama is absolutely, positively unelectable in November: His supporters insist on portraying everyone who disagrees with them as mental midgets. People resent being talked down to like that - and the results of the Democratic primaries in states like Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Kentucky bear this out.

The high horse that the far left has chosen to mount is sure to finish out of the money.

Anthony 05-26-2008 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 280756)
Yeah, ask Native Americans if the United States has a "right to exist." When a group of people set up shop in the middle of your region, on land that you consider "holy," it usually doesn't end up in friendship...


The Jews had been living on that land dating back to about 1,200 B.C. Islam wasn't even founded until the 7th Century A.D.

And the Arabs could have stopped the Jews from "setting up shop in the middle of their region," simply by doing the same thing that their erstwhile colonial masters, the Turks, did during World War II: Remain neutral. The Peace of Westphalia, which ended the Thirty Years' War in 1648, established the precedent that in no case can any country that remains neutral during a war ever be deprived of territory pursuant to the peace settlement ending that war (not only that, but neutral Denmark actually gained the northern half of the province of Schleswig from Germany under the Versailles Treaty, which ended World War I). But no; the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, figuring that if the Nazis won World War II, there would be no Jews to have to share Palestine with, entered the war on the side of the Axis. Well the mufti, who was also Yasser Arafat's uncle, bet on the wrong horse - and ever since the Arabs have been stalking the mutuel window, demanding their money back.



Quote:

And thank G-d people like you weren't in charge 65-70 years ago, because the Japanese and Germans would all be dead, in mass graves... Because you seem to blame all people for the actions of their leaders...

"The Germans allowed Hitler to come to power... let's kill all the Germans."

Well people like me were in charge 65-70 years ago - and today, both the Germans and Japanese are not only very much alive, but kicking our butts in foreign trade (we have massive trade deficits with both), and towering over us in terms of poverty, illiteracy, and infant mortality rates. Seems as if we have lost the peace after winning the war.



Quote:

If you want to join in a holy war against the Muslims, you are no better than the small percentage of muslims that want to kill all westerners.

You are advocating blaming an entire religion, a religion that makes up 19.2 percent of the world's population, for the acts of a few thousand people. You are suggesting that the religion itself is the problem, and in turn implying that they need to be taken out.

Islam is not the problem - militants who blame everything on the west are the problem.

The western world is not the problem - bigots who blame an entire religion and threaten the Muslim world with genocide are the problem.

Well didn't we blame an entire belief system - Communism - during the Cold War?

And how did that struggle end - with the Russians being the victims of an American genocide?

Not exactly.

CKFresh 05-26-2008 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 280792)
Well didn't we blame an entire belief system - Communism - during the Cold War?

And how did that struggle end - with the Russians being the victims of an American genocide?

Not exactly.

That was a mistake too. Blaming the entire belief system - Communism - caused us to enter unnecessary conflicts (most notably Vietnam) due to our paranoia of a harmless economic system. Oh yeah, it and cause millions of people to die unnecessarily.

Let me know where you will be setting up your Islamic concentration camps.

Dano 05-26-2008 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 280765)
I'm not sure what you mean by "re-rail," (sorry, I'm just a kid :P).

I'm assuming that means, hurt his campaign enough to cause a Democratic victory... If that's what you mean, then no. I haven't seen much coverage at all on the "liberal" media. :rolleyes:

Also, I don't think many people find these words that offensive. As some posters here have shown, there may be a lot of people in this country that feel the religion of Islam needs to be "destroyed."

Sorry Kid. A mis spelling on my part. I mean't De-Rail. But you answer was what I was looking for. Thanks.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...20pacifier.jpg

Richard the Lionheart 05-26-2008 09:34 PM

Winston Churchill, one of the most ardent anti-communist politicians in history, never considered the Russian people his enemy, and always offered them the highest praise for their courage and resilency--before, during and after WWII. He, for one, separated the Soviet leadership from the rest of the people of Russia.

Ellis 05-27-2008 07:47 PM

Ten points for the rhyming title; Twenty points if you thought of that yourself; Thirty points if he really does have a pastoral disastoral.

buckeyefan78 05-27-2008 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 280747)
It doesn't agree with your point of view; hence it must have come from a retard - synonym for a person who says or writes "ignorant" things.

That's really mature - I must say; but then again, I suppose it's every bit as mature as bombing school buses filled with little kids is courageous. :rolleyes:

But please enlighten me, since you're so much more intelligent than I am: Where are all these multitudes of Muslims - poor or otherwise - speaking out against the global-domination-seeking Islamofascist agenda? (By stark contrast, many of Israel's most vociferous critics - both in that country and this one - happen to be Jewish). Also, had you bothered to even read the ensuing paragraph, you would have understood that I was actually focusing on Islamofascism's goals, and not on its means - if not, then you must believe that there is no G-d, because it literally says so, right in the Bible! (Psalms 14:1 - however, the complete passage reads: "The fool hath said in his heart, 'There is no G-d'").

For example, if it were possible to take a poll of all the world's Muslims and asked them whether or not Israel has a right to exist, at least 99.9% of them would respond with a most emphatic "No" (but I'm sure a lot of them would be satisfied if the Jews were merely expelled from the Middle East and were resettled in Europe or America, and do not advocate genocide).

It is precisely this mongoose-cobra mentality toward the Jewish people that indelibly stamps Muslims as less than civilized. And not for nothing, but from Morocco in the west to Indonesia in the east, from Kazakhstan in the north to Somalia in the south, the sun physically never sets on the Islamic Empire. Yet they insist on depriving the Jewish people of a tiny state smaller than San Bernardino County - and that includes the so-called "occupied territories" self-defensively captured by Israel in the third of the about ten revanchist wars the Muslims have started since 1948.

And thank G-d people like you and CK weren't in charge of this country 65-70 years ago - since if that was the case, I'd be posting this in German or Japanese; and that assumes that the murderous tyrants who would be ruling over us, and the rest of the world, allowed just anybody to get on the Internet.

But getting back on the original topic (or does anyone even remember what that was?): The very existence of this thread is a classic example of a phenomenon Bill O'Reilly delights in drawing attention to: Using one person's bad behavior to justify someone else's bad behavior - as if John Hagee and Rod Parsley's rants somehow "cancel out" those of Jeremiah Wright.

99% of the world's Muslims live in utter poverty. Nobody will ever ask them their opinion on anything and whatever opinion they have on anything will never see the light of day.

This is like blasting Catholics in Honduras cuz they've never protested the sex abuse cases in Boston.

Those folks spend their entire day trying to find food. In fact, the only reason most of 'em have ANY food is cuz they agreed to follow this Jesus character in the first place and were given the grub by the missionaries.

Case closed.

Ellis 05-27-2008 07:58 PM

Dude, Anothony, all I can say is that when Buck moves in get out of the way. The guy teaches history-- literally. He's a freak of nature when it comes to this stuff.

Just resign to the fact that Buck's right and let's move on.

Please?

Anthony 05-27-2008 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 (Post 280895)
99% of the world's Muslims live in utter poverty. Nobody will ever ask them their opinion on anything and whatever opinion they have on anything will never see the light of day.

This is like blasting Catholics in Honduras cuz they've never protested the sex abuse cases in Boston.

Those folks spend their entire day trying to find food. In fact, the only reason most of 'em have ANY food is cuz they agreed to follow this Jesus character in the first place and were given the grub by the missionaries.

Case closed.



But how many Muslims of any class have come out and defended Israel's right to exist? Yet every time you turn around some "self-hating Jew" is sticking up for the Palestinians.

Or maybe you don't know what the words "or otherwise" mean?

And Ellis: I never back down - and I hope our next President brings those same sensibilities to the table. And when McCain wins in November by a landslide, I will get my wish.

CKFresh 05-28-2008 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 280917)
But how many Muslims of any class have come out and defended Israel's right to exist? Yet every time you turn around some "self-hating Jew" is sticking up for the Palestinians.

Or maybe you don't know what the words "or otherwise" mean?

And Ellis: I never back down - and I hope our next President brings those same sensibilities to the table. And when McCain wins in November by a landslide, I will get my wish.

I think the point is, most of the world's Muslims have no time to worry about terrorism or feel sorry for the United States or Israel. They are trying to feed their families... If 99% of the world's Muslims live an absolute poverty, what do you think the average education level is?

When you get into the educated, and accomplished Muslims in this country, nearly all of them reject the idea of terrorism.

You really have no argument Anthony... You are expecting people who can barely feed their children to "take a stand" against something that they might not even know about... It's not like every muslim in the world has access to the interenet or television.

But to answer your question, here are some Muslim groups who speak out against terrorism:

Free Muslims Coalition
Muslims Against Terrorism
The American Muslim
Islam for Today

And you questions about Muslim leaders speaking out against terrorism, here's a link to prominent Muslim leaders doing just that:

Islamic Statements Against Terrorism

--------

Still want to destroy Islam?

doublee 05-28-2008 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 280936)
I think the point is, most of the world's Muslims have no time to worry about terrorism or feel sorry for the United States or Israel. They are trying to feed their families... If 99% of the world's Muslims live an absolute poverty, what do you think the average education level is?

When you get into the educated, and accomplished Muslims in this country, nearly all of them reject the idea of terrorism.

You really have no argument Anthony... You are expecting people who can barely feed their children to "take a stand" against something that they might not even know about... It's not like every muslim in the world has access to the interenet or television.

But to answer your question, here are some Muslim groups who speak out against terrorism:

Free Muslims Coalition
Muslims Against Terrorism
The American Muslim
Islam for Today

And you questions about Muslim leaders speaking out against terrorism, here's a link to prominent Muslim leaders doing just that:

Islamic Statements Against Terrorism

--------

Still want to destroy Islam?

Just to add a little to what you are saying here. How many of them actually have access to mainstream uncensored media? Keep in mind most of what goes out over the airways in those countries is controlled by the government and heavily censored and skewed to make those in power look good. Most of the citizens in those countries are completely oblivious to the negative press some of their leaders get from mainstream European and American media.

A lot of what they know about America likely stems from negative propaganda spread by their leaders and officials. It really has less to do with Islam than it does with control. Those leaders just happen to be Islamic. Didn't the Christians do much of the same in medieval times? They used negative propaganda against other religions and cultures to scare people into being submissive to the churches wishes.

CKFresh 05-28-2008 09:28 AM

Exactly doublee. We can't expect people to "connect the dots" when they have no formal edcation, no access to interantional news, while they struggle to feed their families. It's simply unrealistic.

doublee 05-28-2008 09:39 AM

But even those who don't struggle to feed their families are still fed a lot of misinformation because mainstream media is controlled by the Anti-American, Anti-Christian, Pro-Islam government. It has as much to do with a conscious effort by those in power to keep those not in power as misinformed as possible to maintain a submissive populous as it does with how educated or uneducated these people are. If you grow up with the mindset that Americans and Christians are evil from the cradle then no matter how educated you are you are always going to believe it unless you are able to get out from that part of the world and travel to countries where the freedoms to express oneself are more prevalent.

Anthony 05-28-2008 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 280936)
But to answer your question, here are some Muslim groups who speak out against terrorism:

Free Muslims Coalition
Muslims Against Terrorism
The American Muslim
Islam for Today

And you questions about Muslim leaders speaking out against terrorism, here's a link to prominent Muslim leaders doing just that:

Islamic Statements Against Terrorism


All right, these groups claim to reject the means the terrorists are using. But do they reject the Islamofascist movement's goals? Maybe they believe that the same goals can somehow be achieved "non-violently"?




Quote:

Still want to destroy Islam?

No one wants to destroy Islam - does even the Jewish Defense League advocate taking over the entire Arab/Muslim world, leaving them with nothing? Yet that's exactly what the Muslims want to do to the Jews - and have been doing their level best to bring it about for the last 60 years.

CKFresh 05-29-2008 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 281041)
All right, these groups claim to reject the means the terrorists are using. But do they reject the Islamofascist movement's goals? Maybe they believe that the same goals can somehow be achieved "non-violently"?

Are you talking about the destruction of the Jewish people? How could that be achieved "non-violently?"

Quote:

No one wants to destroy Islam - does even the Jewish Defense League advocate taking over the entire Arab/Muslim world, leaving them with nothing? Yet that's exactly what the Muslims want to do to the Jews - and have been doing their level best to bring it about for the last 60 years.
Actually, McCain's "spiritual guide," is calling for the destruction of Islam.

"that's exactly what the Muslims want to do..."

There you go again... "the Muslims." I have a Muslim sitting next to me at work. Yesterday I went to lunch with him and one of our Jewish coworkers... when they split an order of cheese sticks it didn't seem like he wanted to destroy the Jews...

But that's okay, keep on placing sweeping generalizations on the most common religion in the world, with members in nearly every country and every race...

They're all the same...:rolleyes:

Anthony 05-30-2008 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 281045)
Are you talking about the destruction of the Jewish people? How could that be achieved "non-violently?"


That's not the only issue. What about Islamic sharia law, and their desire to see it enforced globally?


Quote:

Actually, McCain's "spiritual guide," is calling for the destruction of Islam.

"that's exactly what the Muslims want to do..."

There you go again... "the Muslims." I have a Muslim sitting next to me at work. Yesterday I went to lunch with him and one of our Jewish coworkers... when they split an order of cheese sticks it didn't seem like he wanted to destroy the Jews...

But that's okay, keep on placing sweeping generalizations on the most common religion in the world, with members in nearly every country and every race...

They're all the same...:rolleyes:

And the man who married Barack Obama and his wife, and baptized their children, has stated that he believes the U.S. government created HIV to destroy black people (a week or two after that story came out, a presumably gay man had a letter to the editor published in the San Francisco Chronicle stating that he has personally lost about 20 friends to AIDS over the years, and that every one of them was white. Oops!).

And your father or grandfather might have had a Russian co-worker sitting next to him at work, and they may have gone out to lunch together. But even if that were the case, did that make Communism any less of a threat to our way of life, and the Cold War any less worth prosecuting?

So far as destroying Islam goes - was fascism "destroyed" at the end of World War II? Strange how I remember that both Spain and Portugal had fascist governments into the 1970s, and we didn't do anything to try and "destroy" them; not only that, but we openly supported fascist regimes in Nicaragua and El Salvador in the 1980s, and to this day we're allied with one in Colombia.

CKFresh 05-30-2008 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 281120)
That's not the only issue. What about Islamic sharia law, and their desire to see it enforced globally?

Again, you are convinced that ALL Muslims want sharia law enforced globally?

I find it amazing that you know the thought process of billions of people. :rolleyes:

Quote:

So far as destroying Islam goes - was fascism "destroyed" at the end of World War II? Strange how I remember that both Spain and Portugal had fascist governments into the 1970s, and we didn't do anything to try and "destroy" them; not only that, but we openly supported fascist regimes in Nicaragua and El Salvador in the 1980s, and to this day we're allied with one in Colombia
Fascism and Islam aren't comparable. Fascism is a form of government. Islam is a faith.

Fascism is a form of government where the people are victims. Islam is a faith of choice.

Fascism can be defeated by removing a few leaders. Islam is not going away.

The term "islamofascist," (Bill O'Reilly) is simply misguided, misleading and an incorrect characterization...

There is no sense in which jihadists embrace fascist ideology as it was developed by Mussolini or anyone else who was associated with the term.

Moreover, the term "islamofascism" is used by people want to feel important, just a way of making us feel that we're the 'greatest generation' fighting another World War.

And finally, the most totalitarian Islamic regimes, in fact, are America's allies.

The current United States government isn't far from fascism, but the religion of Islam isn't fascist at all.

Some Muslims may be violent. Some Muslims may be terrorists. But the religion is just another religion.

Richard the Lionheart 05-30-2008 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 281123)
The current United States government isn't far from fascism, but the religion of Islam isn't fascist at all.


:lol:

Thanks for a great laugh, CK. You can't really believe that... :D

Anthony 05-31-2008 04:13 AM

I wasn't equating Islam with fascism; what I was trying to say is that once we eliminated any realistic threat that fascism posed to us, by defeating Hitler and Mussolini in World War II, we didn't proceed to go around trying to utterly destroy it root and branch, and wipe any remnant of it off the face of the earth.

The same thing can be said for Communism: Nearly 20 years after the Berlin Wall has fallen, aren't there still several communist countries in the world, including billion-plus-strong China - and have we invaded any of them like we did Iraq?

Once this is all over - and I personally predict it will take another 12-15 years before it is - the calls for prayer will still be emanating from minarets the world over every Friday, with billions of people heeding them; but what you won't hear are bombs going off on school buses or in skyscrapers, or calls for the destruction of Israel or any other country.

CKFresh 06-02-2008 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 281197)
I wasn't equating Islam with fascism.

You have used the term "Islamofascist" several times.

Montrovant 06-02-2008 05:49 PM

Anthony, are you saying you think we will end terrorism in 12-15 years? Or that we will end Islamic terrorism?

Anthony 06-04-2008 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrovant (Post 281254)
Anthony, are you saying you think we will end terrorism in 12-15 years? Or that we will end Islamic terrorism?


Well who else out there is practicing terrorism, on a global scale?

If it took us just under 45 years to defeat Communism in the First Cold War, then the Second Cold War - which actually started on "2/26" (the original World Trade Center bombing on February 26, 1993) - shouldn't take more than half that long, give or take a few years in either direction.

And just as the First Cold War ended without Sherman tanks rolling through Moscow or any nukes dropped, there's no reason why the Second Cold War cannot be concluded in similar fashion.

CKFresh 06-04-2008 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 281338)
Well who else out there is practicing terrorism, on a global scale?

Define terrorism...

I would argue that Israel and the United States have sponsored and carried out terrorism for decades.


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