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Old 02-23-2009, 12:29 PM   #46
buckeyefan78
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-About this generation:

My main problem is that everyone in this great generation feels entitled and important. 99.99% (I am in this group) are mundane people, worth nothing more than the next.
What separates this generation from yesteryear is the combination of entitlement/self-importance with an abundance of access/opportunity/ability to take chances/seek answers. Every generation has had a healthy dose of the former in some sense...especially among their generation's economic elite...but it's the latter that is so troubling because young people today are squandering their abilities/opportunities and resources out of cowardice/laziness/entitlement and simply accepting the lies told to them by the older generation. Plus, even the disadvantaged of this generation are much better off than previous ones...in bulk. Had past generations been given this set of circumstances they would have done at least somewhat better than this group is doing. My guess is they would have done MUCH better.

The fact that these above words can be so easily written off as old vs. young is enough for the younger crowd to ignore it...which is wrong. They've got the time and energy to digest everything. Might as well do it. It's the older crowd that doesn't have the time or patience or ability to open a closed subject back up.

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But yet we've masked it by going on youtube and posting our worthless commentary about **** that we have no entitlement to talk about. Seriously, get the **** off youtube with your commentary unless you can contribute something important-- if you have a master's degree in your field or have done extensive research in a professional setting or are a published author. And the same goes for blogs; no one gives a **** what some kid living in his basement thinks about Barack Obama.
I would lean off the master's degree talk and formal eduation as a whole but your point is taken about entitlement and earning some sort of credentials.

As a whole, what the younger generation doesn't realize is that with life experience and honest attempts you gain a personality and the ability to empathize with situations that...while you don't have direct knowledge of...can rationalize and understand thru your own morals/values to a certain extent. At the very least, you can be a somewhat endearing individual or valuable member of a relationship because personality is reliable and provides a standard...any standard to gage things by. But you can't have one unless you've actually gone thru an untainted experience and actually developed from it.

But, as is the case most of the time, the younger crowd sees this prerequisite as oppressive and demeaning. This can be seen in the manifestations you provided - the youtubes and such and the childish behavior. 99% of them have no clue that this is how life is...but not only that...it's the only thing left at the end of the day. I'm sure most young people don't have the foggiest clue what I just wrote in the above paragraph.

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-This is the generation that has so much power, changing the world!-- Whatever. The world changes us, we don't do **** but parade about how special we are.
I read his wikipedia page; I'm an expert... (or so my mom thinks )


Don't get me wrong, in settings like a message board or in casual conversation it is fine to dabber into physics, politics, science, etc. but leave the real talk to professionals.

And then you have Facebook. First of all, I have to laugh to when I see stupid crap like "25 Things."
Vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

25 things:
I like cake, my friends are the best (lol, you guyz rock), i go to school and don't like it, etc.

Then the groups... you'll search "Nietzsche Fans" and see like 20,000 fans. Get real-- most of those people read his freaking wikipedia page and now consider themselves fans/experts.

It's a joke. The generation is a joke.
I skimmed Flaubert and now I'm expert-- I just hope the people I know don't run into a UCLA professor.

But what I hate more: people with mundane lives who think they're important.
Some of this is extreme in example but I'm guessing that you're speaking more from experience and simply reporting observations in a cause & effect manner.

Expertise is subjective and not solely based in the academic world...as I've railed against before. The standards of expertise are probably more important than the nature of the subject itself. I would argue we need to do more to keep the definition and "qualifications" of expertise as up-to-date as possible and under constant scrutiny.

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Take my old high school principal; he waltzed around like he was the ****, thinking his decisions were so important. Wow, you have control over a few hundred nobody students in the middle of nowhere- Good for you! You're really special, man.
I hate people like that.

:lol:

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Oh my god! My troubles are so bad! My phone isn't working, Bobby is breaking up with me! I think I have depression.
I hate people like that even more.

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Old 02-23-2009, 03:48 PM   #47
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As a whole, what the younger generation doesn't realize is that with life experience and honest attempts you gain a personality and the ability to empathize with situations that...while you don't have direct knowledge of...can rationalize and understand thru your own morals/values to a certain extent. At the very least, you can be a somewhat endearing individual or valuable member of a relationship because personality is reliable and provides a standard...any standard to gage things by. But you can't have one unless you've actually gone thru an untainted experience and actually developed from it.

You don't need expertise in the academic field, but you need expertise to be able to have any say about anything.

I know you're big on the school of life, but I'm the opposite. Everyone is a member of the school of life-- some people have seen some more ****ed up **** than others... Sure, the slums may be the MIT of the school of life, but whose opinion am I going to value more: some guy who had a tough life or a guy who listens to Beethoven everyday for 7 hours?

I'm taking the latter. Why? Because he has something to offer that no one else does. He sees the world in a way that no one does. You can get guys who made it from the slums for a dime a dozen.
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Old 02-23-2009, 04:23 PM   #48
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But more than that, I have the upmost respect for anyone who dedicates everything they have to their field. If there's a guy out there who spends every second of his life watching movies and classical movies and won't let himself be interrupted until he has a grandiose knowledge of cinema, his opinion is valuable and that is a guy whose movie blog would be worth reading and whose opinion I would want to listen to.
I still disagree with your stance, but to each their own.

To date, I have seen 312 movies that were released theatrically in the United States from January 1, 2008 to December 31, 2008. More than likely, I have seen more movies from that given year than most voters and members of the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences.

For example, Roger Ebert reviewed less than 300 movies in 2008. So, since I spent even more of my time than Roger Ebert watching the movie releases from 2008, does my opinion on what was the best film of 2008 hold more weight than that of Roger Ebert? Or of any of the rest of the Academy voters? I would say the answer is no.

Does it hold more weight than anyone else on this site, where I doubt anyone else at SCMB even approached watching 100 films from 2008? Again, I would say the answer is no. Just because I saw a ton of films does not make me anymore qualified to speak about movies than anyone else.

If an idiot blogger who has only seen 38 movies from last year wants to write a blog trumpeting Step Brothers as the second coming of Christ, let him. Sure, it may not be a blog that either you or I think is valuable or important, but it doesn't mean others wouldn't. And considering that my favorite movie from last year grossed around $70 million less than Step Brothers did, there is probably a bigger segment of the general public who would side more on his side than mine when polled (and that would include both the young and the old).

The fact that you are railing against those who might impose their will on others while writing about how you wish you could impose your will on them just rubs me the wrong way. But I'll let it rest.
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Old 02-23-2009, 08:11 PM   #49
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You don't need expertise in the academic field, but you need expertise to be able to have any say about anything.

I know you're big on the school of life, but I'm the opposite. Everyone is a member of the school of life-- some people have seen some more ****ed up **** than others... Sure, the slums may be the MIT of the school of life, but whose opinion am I going to value more: some guy who had a tough life or a guy who listens to Beethoven everyday for 7 hours?

I'm taking the latter. Why? Because he has something to offer that no one else does. He sees the world in a way that no one does. You can get guys who made it from the slums for a dime a dozen.
I'm not sure you know enough about life or academics in general to decide what qualifies as expertise in something. Actually, I know you don't. But don't do a CK and piss on that Rob, it's just the way it is. And I'm not sure if you've become elitist in that sense or not but I haven't the foggiest idea what the Beethoven guy has to offer and why that has more merit than what anyone else does.

In any event...

My assertion isn't the "school of life" but the school of experience dictating your morals/values in whatever field you chose to participate in regardless of the level of achievement (formal or informal). That could be sports, arts, plumbing or world diplomacy. Now naturally, as you've seen in getting to know me in here, I've chosen to adopt more of my "informal" training in life to dictate who I am and how I conduct myself but it was only after careful consideration of the "other side" and what it had to offer as well. I'm not going to sit here and say I always give the academic approach its due but I'm operating at a decent enough clip to satisfy who I am and that's just the way it's going to be. And truth be told, I have adopted some of those techniques...or at the very least...manipulated them...to see thru my values/personality.

And it doesn't necessarily mean that someone with background A is going to turn out a certain way or conduct themselves within their life a certain way. It's personality Rob, who you are...not a philosophy. If you simply go thru life blindly trusting a philosophy or a system without it reflecting merit back to you in who you are...well...you might as well kill yourself cuz you have no personality and no passion for whatever the hell it is that you're doing. It may make you a great philosopher on paper but you'll be one sorry ass human being. If that's what you're going for...go ahead on this trail...I guess.

I come from a huge family all with a similar background...obviously. Within those (now) adult ranks we have white collar professionals with up to 3 college degrees to folks who have done time to GED equivalents. Some poor, some middle class and probably 1 or 2 I would consider economically rich...though my standards would differ from most others.

It's about going thru life and validating your experiences/morals and values you've attained by conducting yourself a certain way in whatever walk of life you happen to be in.

Take my one sister for example. Highly academic, graduated #1 in her class in HS and college. 3 degrees, travels the world speaking on autism and had a few joint papers on battle fatigue for Nam vets published. Beethoven? - yep - all the time. If you ever need someone to drive cross-country with Rob, let me know.

Yes, I'm the anti-formal education type in how I facilitate my beliefs and values as I see it but honestly Rob, aside from the fact she is a million times "smarter" than me academically and has decided to use formal training as a means to dictate her values...we differ very little in personality.

Meaning, we differ very little in what we value and how we think you can achieve those values. There are some personality traits beyond our control ( I would think) that have helped dictate the direction in which we conduct our lives (her patience and meticulous nature for instance...which I admire cuz I think at times would help me dictate my values) but overall it's one single bottom line: work ethic, accountability and attempts...NOT results. That stems from having a similar background and learning a certain value system.

Her bottom line plays out in workshops, lecture halls and in front of the top academics in the field of psychology and autism. My same bottom line has been used on inner city youths trying to get out of the ghetto.

We get the same resistance. Same praise. Same denial. Same result at times regardless of what we do in specific circumstances. But that's how you want it Rob cuz then you know you're actually validating your values/morals thru your work. I'm not sure you know this or want it but if not...I'm not sure you're ever going to be happy with whatever life presents you.
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Old 02-23-2009, 08:48 PM   #50
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What separates this generation from yesteryear is the combination of entitlement/self-importance with an abundance of access/opportunity/ability to take chances/seek answers.
I agree. I am sickened by how we are raising kids now; everyone is a "winner" and how every kid in the little leagues gets a trophy. I think that is taking it too far.
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:09 AM   #51
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Morals, values, beliefs, philosophies, etc.: Buck, you're getting into gray areas. All I'm saying is that I hold the absolute utmost respect for anyone who has a field that is their life, and those are the people who I want to hear from. And when it comes to getting analysis from people who aren't at least 85% absorbed in their field seems ridiculous.

And I hold myself to this standard. I only talk about things that I am absorbed in: Satie, Wittgenstein, epistemology, solipsism, Saramago, Calvino, and Pamuk. In real life, I do not venture into conversation about other things-- or at least don't give opinions or analysis about anything else.

It really bothers me in real life (on here, whatever) when I see people talking about stuff that they know little about-- it really bothers me. Second-grade analysis can be given by anyone-- I want to hear from the experts and the people absorbed in the subject.

Last edited by Ellis; 02-24-2009 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:56 AM   #52
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YEP!! Thanks to you.
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Old 02-25-2009, 12:45 PM   #53
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Morals, values, beliefs, philosophies, etc.: Buck, you're getting into gray areas. All I'm saying is that I hold the absolute utmost respect for anyone who has a field that is their life, and those are the people who I want to hear from. And when it comes to getting analysis from people who aren't at least 85% absorbed in their field seems ridiculous.
Well, life is gray...so I'm not too worried about it. But to my point, a personality shouldn't be.

The problem here Rob is ( and again not to well...overly offend) you seem to think that being "absorbed" or dedicated in/to something equates to expertise or authority. What you don't factor in is the questioning of what really constitutes being absorbed and/or the motives/background of the people doing the investigating.

A college degree can mean many things. One of which is expertise/dedication. Another is a big fat check to a university. A life of working out in the field in a certain arena can mean expertise/dedication without formal education. If you can't learn to judge the motives of people and develop your own motives/personality (which is done thru experience of any kind IMO...but what do I know) then your whole life is going to be pursuing knowledge for reasons not that interesting to other people. Now, if that's cool with you...cool. But I wouldn't count on others being too interested in what you have to say on anything...not just what you are studying. And I wouldn't put too much stock in you being the person who "saves the world" thru your pursuits either. Not a personal knock but it's been done before.

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And I hold myself to this standard. I only talk about things that I am absorbed in: Satie, Wittgenstein, epistemology, solipsism, Saramago, Calvino, and Pamuk. In real life, I do not venture into conversation about other things-- or at least don't give opinions or analysis about anything else.
Ok, that's great. But why those subjects? What value do they have thru who you are? What value can they add to someone who differs in their pursuits? When you talk to someone who is lean on this subject matter, what "pitch" would you give them to get into this stuff? What's in it for them?

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It really bothers me in real life (on here, whatever) when I see people talking about stuff that they know little about-- it really bothers me. Second-grade analysis can be given by anyone-- I want to hear from the experts and the people absorbed in the subject.
I understand this point Rob but at best you're being overly anal and sensitive to what other people are doing. Now, I'm guilty of that to a large extent but if it isn't too righteous of me (as some would claim) I actually have a personality and mission I'm trying to work thru in my life. I'm not saying it's worthwhile or that I even do a good job of it but I'm doing the work and I'm stuck doing it cuz that's who I am...for better...and many times I think...for worse.

Until you give people a good reason why something is important or give them knowledge on a topic you are studying this whole pursuit is nothing more than a solitary academic search for reasons unbeknownst to outsiders. Now, if that's what you want...like I said...cool. But if not, if you want to actually interact with people on it...I'm sorry Rob...you're going to have to get know people.
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Old 02-25-2009, 01:51 PM   #54
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"A college degree can mean many things."

Agreed.

But it comes down to Wittgenstein's final line (although this is out of context) in the Tractatus: "Whereof one cannot speak thereof one must be silent."

I just wish that everyone would follow this rule.

***
"The problem here Rob is ( and again not to well...overly offend) you seem to think that being "absorbed" or dedicated in/to something equates to expertise or authority"

Again, I don't see how it doesn't. Dedication and being absorbed leads to expertise and authority.
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:23 PM   #55
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I hear Andy Richter is going to join Conan O'Brien on The Tonight Show. That gets me excited.

On with the show...
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Old 02-25-2009, 07:28 PM   #56
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"A college degree can mean many things."

Agreed.

But it comes down to Wittgenstein's final line (although this is out of context) in the Tractatus: "Whereof one cannot speak thereof one must be silent."

I just wish that everyone would follow this rule.

***
"The problem here Rob is ( and again not to well...overly offend) you seem to think that being "absorbed" or dedicated in/to something equates to expertise or authority"

Again, I don't see how it doesn't. Dedication and being absorbed leads to expertise and authority.
I'm pooped out on this one Rob but good talkin' to ya. Most young people don't respond to my approach and you didn't turn all pissy with me even if I did deserve it or did a piss poor job on my end.

See ya on the otherside...
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Old 02-25-2009, 07:31 PM   #57
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I'm pooped out on this one Rob but good talkin' to ya. Most young people don't respond to my approach and you didn't turn all pissy with me even if I did deserve it or did a piss poor job on my end.

See ya on the otherside...
Yep. We just never got on the same page...
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Old 02-25-2009, 07:33 PM   #58
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Yep. We just never got on the same page...
We'll blame me. I'm old and don't know any better.

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Old 03-03-2009, 11:08 AM   #59
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Sorrry I missed it. I HATE CONAN.
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:58 PM   #60
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Sorrry I missed it. I HATE CONAN.
What's wrong with Conan? Love the guy. I missed Fallon, I rarely stay up that late anymore. But I heard he had DeNiro and others on. Anyone see it?
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