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-   -   Kwame Brown blows ass... and the Lakers are trading for him (https://www.sports-central.org/community/boards/showthread.php?t=12332)

#99 07-14-2005 01:25 PM

Kwame Brown blows ass... and the Lakers are trading for him
 
Say it ain't so, Phil. Say it ain't so. Ah, but it seems it is so -- that the Lakers are making yet another blunder. I don't want to hear about how Kwame needs a change of scenery or that he's only 23. Fact is this: He's a headcase. He's SOFT. He sucks! And he sure as hell won't pan out like Jermaine O'Neal did.

Phil has his work cut out for him here. Especially if Kwame - perhaps a bigger bust than Olowakandi - can't take the heat from Kobe. Why didn't the Lakers deal Caron for somebody worth a damn? I would've been happy with a Stromile Swift or a Jamaal Magloire. But this? This is a joke, right?

Deluxe 07-14-2005 01:32 PM

Re: Kwame Brown blows ass... and the Lakers are trading for him
 
Quote:

Originally posted by #99
Especially if Kwame - perhaps a bigger bust than Olowakandi - can't take the heat from Kobe.
He should be used to it by now. Michael Jordan screamed and yelled at him all the time while he was still a rookie with the Wizards.

#99 07-14-2005 01:40 PM

If you look at his performance since MJ retired, I hardly think you can reason that he has adapted to criticism. He pouts. He whines. The guy is as mentally fragile now as he's ever been.

Deluxe 07-14-2005 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by #99
If you look at his performance since MJ retired, I hardly think you can reason that he has adapted to criticism. He pouts. He whines. The guy is as mentally fragile now as he's ever been.
So basically, he acts like a couple other Pro Athletes I can think of.(No names mentioned). In all seriousness though, I agree. This is one of the reasons I agree with the raising of the age limit. It will help teams to ensure that the young player that they are about to draft will be able to handle the pressure of being scrutinized by an unforgiving press, and having the teams success dependent on them. LeBron James is really the only player I have seen, drafted right out of high school who has managed to act like a professional and keep himself out of the negative spotlight.

Clipps 07-14-2005 02:02 PM

Yeah. LeBron had a lot of criticism going in his rookie season. haters said he was gunna be a bust, especially after his pathetic performance during preseason in his rookie year.

190 Octane 07-14-2005 02:21 PM

Kwame averaged 7 points and 5 rebounds the past four seasons. Not exactly earthshaking. I could see him emerging elsewhere like Jermaine O'Neal did in Indiana, but that was with a free agent signing.

Being traded for two players, to a team with a lot of expectations and an angry star isn't the best situation of a youngster to come into his own.

Deluxe 07-14-2005 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clipps
Yeah. LeBron had a lot of criticism going in his rookie season. haters said he was gunna be a bust, especially after his pathetic performance during preseason in his rookie year.
I'll never criticize a player until he has a couple of years to prove himself, and LeBron proved that point. He's done alot for the Cavs who were pre-LeBron PATHETIC! Kwame...hasn't done much of anything since he's been in. Maybe a fresh start is all he needs but under Kobe?...We'll see how he can handle that. I don't know...

tobynosker 07-14-2005 03:00 PM

Uh oh...I see a buckeye post blaming Kobe Bryant for the sign and trade deal to bring Kwame Brown in as "the next great Laker center."

In a previous thread I said "Los Angeles is still a major market team with a lot of history that can draw free agents to their organization...players like Kwame Brown could see great intrigue playing with Bryant." In all honestly, Kwame Brown will fit in nice in Los Angeles. Hopefully, he doesn't have to deal with expectations that he cannot live up to like he has for the last four seasons. Why are we so quick to call out Kwame Brown for being such a disappointment? Brown is always the first route people take when arguing for an age-limit in the NBA, because he hasn't lived up to expectations of a number one overall pick. It was the decision of Washington Wizards General Manager Wes Unseld, Doug Collins and Michael Jordan to select the kid number one overall in the 2001 NBA Draft? They were the ones that made the poor business decision in bringing in a young, unproven talent with a terrible attitude.

Regardless of Brown's numbers and attitude, I understand Lakers management decision in taking a chance on the young 23 year old, rather than gambling on Chris Mihm and Vlade Divac for another season. While Brown will never be at the level of Jermaine O'Neal, isn't O'Neal sort of the exception to the rule? I mean, the guy finished second overall in the MVP voting during the 2004 season. Brown will never be an MVP-type player, but the Lakers already have an MVP-type on the floor. They needed a youthful center that can provide 13 points and 8 boards a night when called upon. Brown hasn't done that yet in his career, but again he is 23 years old and a better option than Mihm or Divac.

But, with all that said, it's still a terrible trade. First, because they wasted a draft pick on Andrew Bynum. Their wasn't but one decent center in this entire 2005 NBA Draft, and he was taken first overall. This was a draft filled with a lot of talent at the guard and forward position, and Los Angeles failed to capitalize on that.

Secondly, Caron Butler could have been a strong role player for years to come next to Kobe Bryant. And, I think Butler would have had a better chance at becoming a better player alongside of Bryant and under Phil Jackson than he will in Washington where they have now lost Larry Hughes and Kwame Brown. He was a great third option behind Bryant and Odom. I see him being called upon too often in Washington. Certainly it's not a bad trade on Washington's part trying to fill that scoring need left by Hughes by bringing in Butler, while also dumping the baggage of Brown, but I still see Caron looking for another place to play whenever his contract is up.

Thirdly, who is now going to fill the open hole left by Butler being traded? The resigned Luke Walton? Jumaine Jones? Try and play the rookie Von Wafer?

And finally, why would you trade away Chucky Atkins on top of it? Hopefully from the initial reports, the Wizards will want Devean George over Atkins, because it would work better for both teams. Otherwise, who is your point guard in Los Angeles? Tony Bobbitt?

I have to assume that Phil Jackson, Mitch Kupchak and Jerry Buss have something else in the works, otherwise this team has filled a need while accumalating two more.

blackdogsong 07-14-2005 03:24 PM

hey, if anyone could mentor Kwame Brown it's Kobe. right? lol.

Deluxe 07-14-2005 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blackdogsong
hey, if anyone could mentor Kwame Brown it's Kobe. right? lol.
We'll find out soon. Let's see how it goes.

JayRedd 07-14-2005 04:45 PM

Jermaine O'Neal's first four seasons
1996 - 4.1 ppg, 2.8 rpg
1997 - 4.5 ppg, 3.4 rpg
1998 - 2.6 ppg, 2.8 rpg
1999 - 3.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg

Then he went to Indiana. I may have overstated Kwame getting to JO level but I still think he'll make a few all-star teams down the road. The kid is young and raw, but he has some skill. And you can't teach that size and atleticism.

#99 07-14-2005 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tobynosker
Uh oh...I see a buckeye post blaming Kobe Bryant for the sign and trade deal to bring Kwame Brown in as "the next great Laker center."

In a previous thread I said "Los Angeles is still a major market team with a lot of history that can draw free agents to their organization...players like Kwame Brown could see great intrigue playing with Bryant." In all honestly, Kwame Brown will fit in nice in Los Angeles. Hopefully, he doesn't have to deal with expectations that he cannot live up to like he has for the last four seasons. Why are we so quick to call out Kwame Brown for being such a disappointment? Brown is always the first route people take when arguing for an age-limit in the NBA, because he hasn't lived up to expectations of a number one overall pick. It was the decision of Washington Wizards General Manager Wes Unseld, Doug Collins and Michael Jordan to select the kid number one overall in the 2001 NBA Draft? They were the ones that made the poor business decision in bringing in a young, unproven talent with a terrible attitude.

Regardless of Brown's numbers and attitude, I understand Lakers management decision in taking a chance on the young 23 year old, rather than gambling on Chris Mihm and Vlade Divac for another season. While Brown will never be at the level of Jermaine O'Neal, isn't O'Neal sort of the exception to the rule? I mean, the guy finished second overall in the MVP voting during the 2004 season. Brown will never be an MVP-type player, but the Lakers already have an MVP-type on the floor. They needed a youthful center that can provide 13 points and 8 boards a night when called upon. Brown hasn't done that yet in his career, but again he is 23 years old and a better option than Mihm or Divac.

But, with all that said, it's still a terrible trade. First, because they wasted a draft pick on Andrew Bynum. Their wasn't but one decent center in this entire 2005 NBA Draft, and he was taken first overall. This was a draft filled with a lot of talent at the guard and forward position, and Los Angeles failed to capitalize on that.

Secondly, Caron Butler could have been a strong role player for years to come next to Kobe Bryant. And, I think Butler would have had a better chance at becoming a better player alongside of Bryant and under Phil Jackson than he will in Washington where they have now lost Larry Hughes and Kwame Brown. He was a great third option behind Bryant and Odom. I see him being called upon too often in Washington. Certainly it's not a bad trade on Washington's part trying to fill that scoring need left by Hughes by bringing in Butler, while also dumping the baggage of Brown, but I still see Caron looking for another place to play whenever his contract is up.

Thirdly, who is now going to fill the open hole left by Butler being traded? The resigned Luke Walton? Jumaine Jones? Try and play the rookie Von Wafer?

And finally, why would you trade away Chucky Atkins on top of it? Hopefully from the initial reports, the Wizards will want Devean George over Atkins, because it would work better for both teams. Otherwise, who is your point guard in Los Angeles? Tony Bobbitt?

I have to assume that Phil Jackson, Mitch Kupchak and Jerry Buss have something else in the works, otherwise this team has filled a need while accumalating two more.

I think you hit it when you mentioned that Kwame never should've been the #1 pick in the first place and that those expectations were thrust upon him, perhaps unfairly. However, there had to have been a reason for all that hype, right? Regardless, whether he was picked 1st or 5th, everyone is justified in calling Brown a giant disappointment. To think that Kwame will be rid of those expectations of having to live up to being a #1 pick is somewhat, but not altogether true. You have a whole new set of expectations when you put on a Laker uniform. Especially when you've been touted to have as much talent as Brown and when the Lakers gave up two quality starters to get him. A whole new set of problems, right there.

Lakers are bombing at every turn since after since hiring Phil (how ironic). Caron Butler never exactly had a place on the team and his future in LA was in doubt since the time of his arrival, but surely you could get more for him than this. I'd be happy to see Devean's contract unloaded and can only assume that Chucky's name is on the table A) because the Lakers are severely handicapped financially and need to dump salary and B) he doesn't jive with Kobe (that second part is actually true - not just a conspiracy theory). Who knows what the free'd up cash can get them. Vujacic looks likely to be the man who would steps in at point guard, but is he ready? Questionable.

I expect Divac will retire before the season starts, but in all honesty, at this stage of the game, I feel far more comfortable with Mihm in the starting lineup than Brown. I also don't believe Brown has proven that he can play center in this league, especially in the West. Hell, I feel more comfortable starting Turiaf at PF than I do Brown. Kwame is a bench player at best, right now. If Phil whips him into shape mentally, maybe he becomes a regular starter. But these dillusions of All Star games are, well, dillusions.

I sure hope you're right and the Lakers have another move planned, because the roster looks worse now than it did last season. Yay. We've added a project and a selfish bust while getting rid of a quality scorer and a servicable point guard. Go team.

No question Washington comes out looking great on this one. I think Butler won't have any trouble filling the scoring void left by Hughes, but his defense compared to Hughes is desperately lacking.

Clipps 07-14-2005 05:33 PM

Quote:

Jermaine O'Neal's first four seasons
1996 - 4.1 ppg, 2.8 rpg
1997 - 4.5 ppg, 3.4 rpg
1998 - 2.6 ppg, 2.8 rpg
1999 - 3.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg

Then he went to Indiana. I may have overstated Kwame getting to JO level but I still think he'll make a few all-star teams down the road. The kid is young and raw, but he has some skill. And you can't teach that size and atleticism.
Difference between Kwame and O'neall is that O'Neal had to play behind Brian Grant and Rasheed Wallace most of the time. The Wizards never had the big man depth that the Blazers had in the late 90s. Kwame did have the chance to show what he's all about and all he did was lick ass and suck balls. When O'Neal was finally given the oppurtunity by getting traded to Indiana, he showed up to the moment.

#99 07-14-2005 05:43 PM

Right on the money, Clipps.

Shawndo 07-14-2005 09:33 PM

:banghead:
Kwame can't handle people yelling criticism at him (Jordan rode him pretty hard), and Kobe is notoriously harsh on his teammates as well.
Lakers take another gamble and it's starting to feel like when you are on a losing streak at the casino and you start getting desperate to win it back...
But maybe Brown is ready to blossom.. God I hope so.

Now the Lakers need a decent point guard too! Vujacic is still way too green.


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