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Old 12-05-2007, 06:01 PM   #1
Brad O.
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Lightbulb New Coaches

Okay. We're getting to that time of year, when a lot of fans are talking about wanting their head coaches gone, and who they want instead. If you think your favorite team is going to fire its coach -- or you don't think they will but believe that they should -- who do you want in his place? If you're happy with your team's coach, who do you think are the top prospects other teams should be looking at?

My own thoughts:

* Jason Garrett and Josh McDaniels have got to be appealing candidates for any team thinking about making a change.
* If Marvin Lewis gets fired, somebody has to hire him. I think Baltimore and Washington, where he's been a DC, would be the best fits if they have openings.
* Speaking of Baltimore, Rex Ryan, anyone?
* Speaking of Washington, Russ Grimm would be a terrific hire there.
* Ron Rivera's star has really fallen, but I think he has to at least get some interviews.
* I know they're old and probably not going anywhere, but I have to mention Tom Moore, Monte Kiffin, and Dick LeBeau.
* All four NFC East defensive coordinators, in descending order of likelihood: Jim Johnson (PHI), Gregg Williams (WAS), Steve Spagnuolo (NYG), Brian Stewart (DAL). Williams might not be available, and Spagnuolo and Stewart probably need to prove themselves for another year, but they're interesting sleepers.
* I bet Mike Martz gets at least one interview this offseason, but I think he's an OC, not a HC.
* Guys we've sort of forgotten about: Jim Bates (Ass. HC, DEN), Jim Haslett (DC, STL)
* The supposedly-retired: Marty Schottenheimer, Bill Cowher, Steve Mariucci, Bill Parcells, Dick Vermeil, Dennis Green...

Good fits for likely openings:

* Baltimore may not be a likely opening -- I think Billick gets at least one more year -- but Marvin Lewis and Rex Ryan seem like the best fits to me.
* Cincinnati probably wouldn't hire anyone as big-name as Cowher ($$$), but Ryan or one of the hot OCs might be a good way to go. I kinda think they should stick to a defensive coach, though, and try to keep the offensive staff in place. They're not the problem.
* I hope Cam Cameron gets more than one season, even if it is a historically bad one, but if he gets fired I think the Dolphins should look very hard at Garrett, followed by Rivera.
* I hope Norv Turner gets more than one season, but maybe the Chargers could fire their GM and hire Marty back. :lol:
I do think Cowher would be a really interesting choice in San Diego.
* I suspect Tom Coughlin has earned another year, but if he hasn't Spagnuolo might be a good choice. Someone like a Mariucci might be a good fit, too. If Coughlin goes, I'd guess they go for a "player's coach".
* Washington should go all-out for Grimm or Lewis. I don't think Cowher would work for Dan Snyder, and I think Gregg Williams is overrated. Garrett or Ryan might be an interesting choice.
* I don't think the Rams are going to give up on Scott Linehan after only two seasons, but I could see Lewis, Mariucci, or Ryan being good there. Schottenheimer, Dennis Green, and especially Vermeil are interesting possibilities from the retired list.

Alright, that's my long list of everyone. Who do you like for your favorite team? Who are the best prospects?

Last edited by Brad O.; 12-05-2007 at 06:56 PM. Reason: forgot a comma
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:17 AM   #2
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What? No mention of Ted Cottrell as a possible HC candidate? It would be long, long overdue.

You also mention Rex Ryan, but not Rob Ryan.

Another omission from your list: Mike Singletary, presently the DC with the 49ers.

And anyone who thinks Andy Reid's job is safe ought to have their head examined; personally, my top three choices to succeed Reid are Mike Martz, Mike Martz and Mike Martz - although I wholeheartedly acknowledge that if Reid does get fired (of course he'll "resign" for public consumption), he will be replaced by somebody none of us has ever even heard of (or if I'm lucky, it might be one of the Ryans, either of whom would have a ton of appeal with the fan base in Philly).

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Old 12-06-2007, 05:16 AM   #3
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Rex Ryan's stock may have gone down after he pretty much lost the game for Baltimore Monday night with his stupid time out call. Whether or not it was his fault.

Anthony, why are you so high on MM? I always felt this guy was a disaster of a HC? Curious to know what you see in him, or what you think he'll do for the Eagles?
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:34 AM   #4
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What I see in Mike Martz is basically the same thing the American voters saw in Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the 1932 Presidential election: A total departure from - and diametrical opposite of - what was in place at the time.

If Martz came to Philly, he would - essentially overnight - reverse 35 years of failed policies as regard to the offense in general, and the wide receiver position in particular.

And whether the Eagles went 12-4 or 4-12 under Martz, they - and I - would have a helluva lot of fun doing it.

Dallas may or may not still be America's Team, but for the past nine years the Eagles have been Michael Bolton's Team - and I for one am sick and tired of it.
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:03 AM   #5
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Ok, but by that logic couldn't they pretty much bring in anyone? What if Norv Turner came in - what would you think then?

I hear ya on your gripe with the Eagles, but does it really come to Andy Reid? I personally think McNabb sucks - I could care less how much success he supposedly had there - when I look at his resume I see 0 superbowls, so as far as I'm concerned - he had his shot and proved he couldn't do it. Get him out and bring in someone new. But I think Andy Reid could stay (thats just me).
If I were an Eagles fan I would like to see a young QB and take over. Load up the defense and use the 2001 Patriots "blueprint". Hit hard and play physical on defense, let the QB throw screens and short passes. If Tom Brady could do it with Antwon Smith, JR Redman, & Co. Any young QB could do it with Westbrook.
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
What I see in Mike Martz is basically the same thing the American voters saw in Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the 1932 Presidential election: A total departure from - and diametrical opposite of - what was in place at the time.

If Martz came to Philly, he would - essentially overnight - reverse 35 years of failed policies as regard to the offense in general, and the wide receiver position in particular.

And whether the Eagles went 12-4 or 4-12 under Martz, they - and I - would have a helluva lot of fun doing it.

Dallas may or may not still be America's Team, but for the past nine years the Eagles have been Michael Bolton's Team - and I for one am sick and tired of it.
See, none of this makes any sense at all. Andy Reid is one of the most winningest coaches of this decade I just do not understand the perceptions of him being a horrible coach. Not to mention the idea that we should replace the most successful coach the franchise has had in 35 years with a guy who inherited a Super Bowl team and ran it into the ground in less than 5 years i just asinine. Martz is an awful head coach. He coattailed off of Vermeil and as that team aged out and key players went elsewhere the franchise fell apart. His defenses were a disaster and he did nothing to ensure that the guys who could play defense stuck around. He is the Buddy Ryan of offense.

Whoopty-doo if the receivers are good. Who cares if it is a 'fun' ride if the team sucks. Philly fans aren't interested in being entertained they are interested in winning games. If the team puts up 35 points a game and consistently loses nobody is going to care. I'd give Martz about two years in Philly before he is run out of town. Bottom line is Reid has earned the opportunity to right the ship in Philly and you don't replace him with an also-ran like Mike Martz.

As for other coaches on the hot seat John Fox could be there as well. Fans in Charlotte are getting a bit restless and the Panthers have often looked as though they are simply going through the motions this year.
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:14 AM   #7
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As for other coaches on the hot seat John Fox could be there as well. Fans in Charlotte are getting a bit restless and the Panthers have often looked as though they are simply going through the motions this year.
Agree Fox is on the hotseat. His name has been thrown around the last few seasons but injuries have bought him more time. Again this year - he loses his QB, but I think the fans are fed up. Its been a long time since 2003....

Sad thing is, I think he's a good coach. I think he'd do well in NY (Giants) is they decided to can Coughlin.
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:52 AM   #8
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I think Fox is a pretty good coach as well. Some of the personnel moves he and Hurney, the GM, and his inability to consistently develop talent out of the draft is coming back to bite him in the butt this year.

I just don't get why DeShaun Foster is still the #1 back when he fumbles way too much and his backup, Deangelo Williams is averaging 1.3 yards per carry more than he is. I could almost accept it if Foster were going or 100 yards and averaging 4.5 yards per carry every week but he simply is not. Williams is the more explosive back and needs to be the one getting 15-20 touches a week not 10-15.

They let Keyshawn go without having a proven plan B in place. Granted Keyshawn was nothing special but he did catch 70 balls last year which could very well be more than Keary Colbert, Drew Carter, and Dwayne Jarrett end up with for the entirety of this season.

Julius Peppers has been completely non-existent this season.

Kris Jenkins called the team out in the local media earlier in the year for a lack of heart and simply going through the motions to collect a paycheck.

They will go two or three possessions without even making an attempt to get Steve Smith the ball. When your team is struggling to score the way the Panthers are you need to be getting a guy like Smith the ball 8 to 10 times a game and they seem to forget he is even on the field at times.

I like Fox and think he is a pretty good coach but I think the Panthers may be at a point where a change in leadership is needed in terms of the Head Coach an GM. With the specter of Bill Cowher looming over here in Raleigh it makes the seat that much hotter in Charlotte if the they think they have a realistic shot at landing him as their head coach.
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Old 12-07-2007, 05:34 AM   #9
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Andy Reid is in a multi-way tie for being the least winningest coach of this decade - zero Lombardi Trophies.

But if not Mike Martz, why not do a trade of head coaches - Reid for Mike Shanahan? And if it technically isn't "legal," neither was the Ron Jaworski-for-Charley Young trade in the spring of 1977, if you remember that.

Both have worn out their respective welcomes where they are now, and a change of scenery could benefit both greatly - and as soon as Shanahan stepped off the runway at Philly International wearing those two Super Bowl rings of his, he'd have the Eagles fan base eating out of his hand.

At the other end of the job-security scale, what about Jon Gruden? He's poised to pull off something no head coach has done in modern NFL history: Lead a team to the playoffs both the year before and the year after a less-than-five-win season (not counting the strike year of 1982).

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Old 12-07-2007, 05:44 AM   #10
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I wouldn't be too sure of Gruden's job security. After this season, sure, he's going to keep his job. But if the Bucs have another bad season next year (especially if they make an early playoff exit this year), I could easily see him get fired. The team has been amazingly inconsistent since he arrived. While the SB win gets him a lot of leeway, I think the fans want a team that does well every year, not every other.
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Old 12-07-2007, 06:01 AM   #11
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Name me one NFC South team that has been consistent since that division was created.

You can't - because there hasn't been one.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:59 PM   #12
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What's your point Anthony? We're talking about Gruden....before he coached the Bucs it was Dungy. Dungy's team was pretty consistent in that they won more than they lost and went to the playoffs. Other than a bad first year, I think the Dungy-coached teams never were worse than 8-8. Gruden, on the other hand, has coached teams from the Super Bowl to the cellar in a very short span. The Bucs under Gruden have been good, then horrible, then good, then horrible again. The fact that the NFC South has been filled with inconsistency is immaterial, since it wasn't even a division when Dungy was coaching.
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:33 AM   #13
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Look, can we all just agree to ignore the ridiculous things Anthony says about the Eagles? It just totally derails any logical conversations we can have about these topics.

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What? No mention of Ted Cottrell as a possible HC candidate? It would be long, long overdue.
Ted Cottrell. Seriously?

2006: The San Diego Chargers rank 10th in total defense, 7th in yards per play allowed, 7th in points allowed, 1st in sacks, tied for 15th in turnovers.

2007 to date: The Chargers rank 20th in total defense, 17th in yards per play allowed, 9th in points allowed, tied for 6th in sacks, 1st in turnovers.

Cottrell becomes DC in San Diego and the mighty Charger defense immediately becomes middle-of-the-pack.

This pattern has occurred before.

Cottrell was Minnesota's defensive coordinator from 2004-05. The Vikings' defense was better (fewer yards and points allowed) the year before he arrived, and got better again when he left.

Cottrell was the Jets' DC from 2001-03. Their defense was slightly better before he got there and significantly better immediately after he left.

Everywhere Cottrell goes, he makes defenses worse. Why on earth would anyone want to give him a promotion?

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You also mention Rex Ryan, but not Rob Ryan.
That's very observant. And it was very intentional. Rob Ryan has shown some promise, but he is not a serious head coaching candidate. His brother is.

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Another omission from your list: Mike Singletary, presently the DC with the 49ers.
Look, I know Singletary has been mentioned as a possible candidate, and he might get a couple interviews under the Rooney Rule, but the 49ers' defense is hardly blowing people away, and I just don't see him as a serious contender right now. I know I wouldn't want my favorite team to hire him as head coach.

SPECIAL BONUS COTTRELL CHART
only for the really interested
In all cases, Cottrell years are in red text. Year-before-Cottrell and Year-after-Cottrell years are in blue.

New York Jets
(Cottrell was DC from 01-03)
.........Yd Allowed...Pt Allowed
2000
.....4820..........321
2001
.....5153..........295

.........Total Def...Scoring Def
2000
.....10th........13th
2001
.....19th........12th

.........Yd Allowed...Pt Allowed
2003
.....5319......299
2004
.....4878......261

.........Total Def...Scoring Def
2003
.....21st........8th
2004
.....7th..........4th

The defense didn't get significantly worse when Cottrell initially came on board in 2001, but it got much better when he left in 2004, allowing 450 fewer yards and jumping from 21st to 7th in total defense.

Minnesota Vikings
(Cottrell was DC from 04-05)
.........Yd Allowed...Pt Allowed
2003
.....5356..........353
2004
.....5902..........395

.........Total Def...Scoring Def
2003
.....23rd........23rd
2004
.....28th........26th

.........Yd Allowed...Pt Allowed
2005
.....5173......344
2006
.....4803......327

.........Total Def...Scoring Def
2005
.....21st........19th
2006
.....8th..........14th

When Cottrell joined the Vikings, they immediately gave up 550 more yards than the year before and very nearly had the worst defense in the NFL. They were a little better the next year, about 20th, but when they really got better was when Cottrell was gone, giving up almost 400 yards fewer and rising from 21st to 8th in total defense.

San Diego Chargers
(Cottrell was DC from 04-05)
.........Total Def...Scoring Def
2006
.....10th........7th
2007
.....20th........9th

2007 stats are through Week 13. And again, a team gets worse with Cottrell as DC. Anyone wanna take bets that they get better whenever he leaves?
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Old 12-08-2007, 03:31 AM   #14
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Well, how do you explain Mike McCarthy getting a head coaching job the year after coordinating an offense that ranked last in the entire NFL? It couldn't possibly be because he's part of the Good Old (White) Boy Network, now could it?

Furthermore, is it Ted Cottrell's fault that Philip Rivers has allowed 28 points outright this year - on two interceptions and two lost fumbles - and no doubt has set up other opponents' touchdowns and field goals with his frequent miscues? If the QB throws an interception, and on the ensuing drive the other team's offense goes three and out and kicks a field goal, who is to be blamed for those three points? And the Chargers being "worse" defensively this year just might have something to do with the huge jump in company they're taking this year? But I get it - if a horse finishes out of the money in a $50,000 claiming race after having won for $12,500 the start before that, fire the (assistant) trainer!

And what's so "ridiculous" about not liking Andy Reid and his Punch-and-Judy, 30-years-out-of-date offense? Am I "wrong" because my basic football philosophy was shaped mainly by Al Davis - who has won two Super Bowls - and Don Coryell? Am I even entitled to have a basic philosophy, and to not look favorably upon those who are opposed to it?

I disagree with you - hence I'm an idiot. My, my - that just oozes emotional maturity!

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Old 12-08-2007, 05:56 AM   #15
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I disagree with you - hence I'm an idiot. My, my - that just oozes emotional maturity!
Now, now, no one called anyone an idiot. Everybody who posts here disagrees with most of what you write about the Eagles, but that's been a given for years now. I'm sorry if you felt attacked by my last post, but all I was trying to do was express civil disagreement.

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Well, how do you explain Mike McCarthy getting a head coaching job the year after coordinating an offense that ranked last in the entire NFL? It couldn't possibly be because he's part of the Good Old (White) Boy Network, now could it?
I thought the McCarthy hiring was a very odd choice. But I'm not sure how it relates to Cottrell.

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Furthermore, is it Ted Cottrell's fault that Philip Rivers has allowed 28 points outright this year - on two interceptions and two lost fumbles - and no doubt has set up other opponents' touchdowns and field goals with his frequent miscues? If the QB throws an interception, and on the ensuing drive the other team's offense goes three and out and kicks a field goal, who is to be blamed for those three points?
Of course Cottrell's defense is not to be blamed for that kind of thing. But the Charger's scoring defense is not the problem here. It's total defense, yards allowed. That's where the team has slipped from 10th in the league to 20th. And it's tough to blame the offense for that.

Quote:
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And the Chargers being "worse" defensively this year just might have something to do with the huge jump in company they're taking this year? But I get it - if a horse finishes out of the money in a $50,000 claiming race after having won for $12,500 the start before that, fire the (assistant) trainer!
I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about here, but it seems like the first part refers to strength of schedule. The team's schedule this season has not been significantly tougher than last year's: opponents so far this year are 77-68 (.531), compared to last season's 117-139 (.457). The schedule is harder, but not by a ton. This year's AFC West is extremely weak, and if you take out the one game against New England, San Diego's opponents actually combine for a losing record (65-68).

And as far as Cottrell, I'm not necessarily saying he should be fired. But I'm also not basing my opposition to making him a head coach solely on his results in San Diego this year. He made the Jets' defense worse, he made the Viking defense worse, and now he's making the Chargers' defense worse. It's the pattern that makes me think this guy might be better off as a linebackers' coach than the guy wearing the head set and holding the red flag.

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And what's so "ridiculous" about not liking Andy Reid and his Punch-and-Judy, 30-years-out-of-date offense? Am I "wrong" because my basic football philosophy was shaped mainly by Al Davis - who has won two Super Bowls - and Don Coryell? Am I even entitled to have a basic philosophy, and to not look favorably upon those who are opposed to it?
Hey, I like to see down-the-field throws, too. But you've been calling for Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb to exit stage left ever since I joined the boards in 2002. In that time, the Eagles are 58-34. McNabb has made 3 Pro Bowls. Reid has been named Coach of the Year. McNabb has thrown 111 TDs and only 46 interceptions. That doesn't even include his 16 rushing TDs. The Eagles have gone 5-2 in postseason home games -- the ones a team is "supposed" to win. They've made three conference championship games and a Super Bowl.

On average, a team should only the win the Super Bowl about three times per century -- once every 32 years. To criticize a coach who has been as consistently successful as Reid, or an elite quarterback who might be headed for Canton if he ever stays healthy, is to hold the team to a ridiculously high standard.
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