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View Poll Results: Should homosexuals be allowed to marry?
Yes, absolutely 8 34.78%
No, marriage is a sacred bond between a MAN and a WOMAN 10 43.48%
Sort of: let's give them all the benefits but call it something else 4 17.39%
No, and by the way I hate gay people 1 4.35%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-05-2004, 12:28 AM   #1
Ellis
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Default Gay Marriages

I have a ton of republican friends and the gay marriage topic is pissing me off.

Bush wants to bring religion into state. Because it is "immoral" in some religions to be gay, it is immoral to be gay. What ever happened to keeping religion out of state?

It should not be the GOVERNMENTS job to tell you who you can and can not marry.

I don't care whether it is against your religion of not to be a homosexual, you really need to stop talking if you are against it.

Some people are BORN gay. Why are we punishing these people for the way they born?

It's immoral to punish people for the way you are born. I don't know what it is like to be gay, but I don't think you just wake up one day and decide to be gay.

This is terrible time to be conservative.
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The United States in general, I am referring to people in the United States and not Bush right here, are terrible racist people, for the most part.

We have way too many racists against oriented people, black people, gays, even Jews.

It's the way these people are and people who can't think for themselves need to realize that racism is a load of ****.

Maybe it is just the fact that I live in a racist family, but racism is way too big in this country, and Bush is not helping to get rid of it.

Last edited by Ellis; 11-05-2004 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 11-05-2004, 12:37 AM   #2
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Well, I am not entirely sure that these bans are going to stand as there is no legal basis to do it. If it ever goes to the Supreme Court I don't think they will have any other choice but to overturn the bans as I have yet to hear a compelling argument for them that is not based in religion. Hence, the ban violates the idea of separation of church and state.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:02 AM   #3
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To counterpoint, all 11 states that had gay-marriage bans as propositions passed by nearly 3-1 margins, which indicates most Americans do not approve/agree with it.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:06 AM   #4
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This would be a great thread to add a poll to, Ellis... would you mind if I did so?

My position on it (being a straight man), is that marriage is a sacred committment entered into by two individuals who pledge to remain faithful to each other for the rest of their lives, and also to sort of 'merge' with that person in some ways.

I see no reason why any two people should not be allowed to enter into this committment, regardless of their gender.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:08 AM   #5
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Good Idea.

Shawn or any mod, If you know how and have the power to, please add a poll to this thread.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:24 AM   #6
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Post Gay Marriages?

Let's take a poll..
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:34 AM   #7
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I suppose the third option refers to civil unions.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:47 AM   #8
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da12ken...

See my last post in the SC Presidential thread for the breakdown of all the states that voted on the issue. Southern states were mostly 3-1. Ohio was 62% ( but had another measure excluding long term heterosexual unions from receiving benefits because not legally married, and was the only state that had any stipulation with this measure), Michigan was 59% and Oregon was 57%.

Although the measure in Ohio included that stipulation for straight couples, I still voted against a ban on gay marriage.
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Old 11-05-2004, 03:03 PM   #9
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Homosexuals are sick in the worst way, but we all have faults. But God does hate certain sins worse I believe.
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Old 11-05-2004, 03:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by bama4256
Homosexuals are sick in the worst way, but we all have faults. But God does hate certain sins worse I believe.
I take real offence to that comment. Sick? How? What two consenting adults do is no concern of anyone else.

Oh and
its just about legal all over Canada now. and rightly so. My gay friends should have the same rights as everyone else.... be they man, woman, black, white, native, gay or straight.

We all breath the same air and bleed the same blood.
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Old 11-05-2004, 03:30 PM   #11
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These threads have become very difficult for me to respond to since there is sooo much to answer to, and seeing as I am as far as I can tell the lone representative of conservative American thought, here we go....

Number one, it is important for me to describe MY position, as a conservative, on the issue. I voted against Issue 1 in Ohio because it went waaaayyy too far in my opinion. Marriage, for the most part, is a religious institution. However, there are certain benefits and rights that the government will grant to married couples. I don't think Rosie O'Donnel and her lover should have to be married in a Church against the Church's will for fear of being called insensitive. However, the government should grant these people the same rights in Civil Unions. It is not right to discriminate, and the history books will look at these Issue 1's unfavorably, at least the ones that were written like Ohio's. After hearing that (and btw, that is not even close to the first time I've given my opinion on this, and many, many conservative thinkers feel the same as I do) if you still want to call my position biggoted and cruel go ahead, you are in a fringe, powerless minority.

Number two, Ellis and someone else made a point of "separation of church and state". This is brought up all the time by liberals. But guess what? YOU CANNOT MAKE ANY LAW WITHOUT SOME INFLUENCE FROM RELIGION, OR BY PASSING SOME JUDGEMENT ON A PERSON. This is a fact. The Bible tells us not to murder, so can I murder people since this is religion's ugly influence, and that is just not constitutionally alowed? That's absurd. Be against discrimination of Gays because it is just flat out wrong, don't cheapen your argument with falacious constituitonal law. DISCRIMINATION IS WRONG. That is your argument, that's all you need. Don't cheapen yourselves with this other crap. Nowhere in the Constitution is there mentioned a Separation of Church and State. There is an establishment clause, but they are completely different. The Separation thing came about from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson. Now, maybe I'm not as great a legal thinker as some here, but I did not know that it was written in the Constitution that anything that Thomas Jefferson writes becomes Supreme Law. If only he would have known that at the time! He certainly would have held more sway in Colonial America.

Number three, Ellis' description of the typical American made me laugh. That's so out of touch with reality. I don't know what his home life is like, but that simply isn't true of the majority of Americans. So the next time a conservative says that most liberals hate America, I guess you see where they get that idea. I don't think liberals hate America myself, I think they just see themselves as superior creatures that need to lead us thickheaded idiots around by the shirtcollar. No thanks.

Number four, no one is born gay. Sorry. It just isn't genetically possible. Gay people have no possible way to naturally procreate. How is the gay gene spread? It can't be. Now, before you call me this caveman idiot, I don't think people choose to be gay either. That strikes me as incredibly naive and irresponsible, especially when you pass legislation based on that misnomer, which is why I voted against Ohio's Issue 1. So how do people become gay you ask? Well, since the first two most popular options are obviously incorrect, it is almost certain that being gay is the result of early childhood experiences. I've said this before here, but there are many new posters so I'll repeat myself about the whole thing. Pretty much every single sexual deviance is the result of early periods in the life of the child between the ages of like 3-8 I believe. This is where it happens. People have difficulty in seeing this because we have made gay people pretty much their own quasi race. They are not, they are just normal people with sexual deviances like many others which I won't name because I'm not sure if Marc wants that with the community guidlines and whatnot. So basically, they aren't born gay but they don't choose to be either. It isn't their choice, so you cannot punish them and withold rights from them because of it.

That is probably the length of a buckeyefan post, I'm very sorry. haha
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Last edited by Richard the Lionheart; 11-05-2004 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 11-05-2004, 03:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ricky the Kid
Marriage, for the most part, is a religious institution. However, there are certain benefits and rights that the government will grant to married couples.
Really.... Neither my wife or I would agree with that!!!!
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Old 11-05-2004, 03:38 PM   #13
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When I saw the name of this thread, I thought it was an announcement of the upcoming nuptials of a couple of our members. I just stopped in to say congrats.....

Soooo.......nevermind....
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Old 11-05-2004, 03:51 PM   #14
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Give them the rights, call it something else. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
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Old 11-05-2004, 03:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ricky the Kid

Number four, no one is born gay. Sorry. It just isn't genetically possible. Gay people have no possible way to naturally procreate. How is the gay gene spread? It can't be.
Yes...that is why no women ever is ever born with with obvious hormonally male qualities, such as a large amount of body hair. It's why no men ever suffer from lack of same. It's why EVERYBODY is born with the ability to procreate, because it's impossible to be born otherwise, as per Ricky's ruling and no hormonal or bilogical quirks could EVER make us attracted to the sex half of us are automatically hardwired to be attracted to. Makes sense.
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