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Old 04-06-2007, 02:42 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Montrovant View Post
Depends on the action CK....there are some very freakish ideas about what to do in response to global warming...making a 'shade' in orbit, dumping lead in the ocean to promote plankton growth (I believe a private company has already done some of this), etc.

Besides, I'm not sure there is a concensus about how much affect we have or what's best to do to rectify it.

None of this is said to attempt to discredit the idea of global warming, but rather to point out the issue is not a simple one.
I understand your point, but as I said, the price of action is way less than the potential price of inaction. We need to do something, even if it isn't the best solution.
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Old 04-06-2007, 02:47 PM   #17
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Fresh, I have my facts completely straight. I get them by reading many sources (textbooks, literature too numerous to reference here), not just those spoon-fed to me by those I deem "correct". Sorry, but I have looked into this for a lot longer than you have and have seen that the climatological changes that are happening now are repeats of what has happened many, many times before. The global temperature will decrease, naturally without us doing anything.
This said, again I ask, what do you have to propose to fix the "problem" that I have not already suggested?
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Old 04-06-2007, 02:48 PM   #18
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And by the way, I appreciate your attitude here "Do something, even if it's wrong".
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Old 04-06-2007, 02:49 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
I understand your point, but as I said, the price of action is way less than the potential price of inaction. We need to do something, even if it isn't the best solution.
Here is the quote, just to remind you.
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Old 04-06-2007, 02:58 PM   #20
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that the climatological changes that are happening now are repeats of what has happened many, many times before.
Are you ready for an education?

"research has failed to identify any known natural climate-forcing mechanism that could have generated all of the unprecedented warming that has led to 1998 being, most likely, the warmest year in at least 1200 years. "

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/innews/warming.htm

"The IPCC also predicts an increase in average temperature between 2.5 F (1.4 C) and 10.4 F (5.8 C) over the next century, a rate of warming unprecedented in the last 10,000 years. "

http://www.globalization101.org/inde...s1=subs&id=161

Would you like more. These things have never happened before, so quit lying.

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And by the way, I appreciate your attitude here "Do something, even if it's wrong".
No, any action that limits how much carbon we emit into the air would not be wrong. It might not be the best solution, but it would be better.
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Old 04-06-2007, 03:02 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by CKFresh
Find me one MAJOR scientific group who disputes global warming.
The Science & Environmental Policy Project based out of Arlington, Virginia disputes the claims of global warming. The SEPP's Board of Directors is chaired by Frederick Seitz, formerly the President of the National Acadmey of Sciences.
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Old 04-06-2007, 03:05 PM   #22
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Neither stands a chance to be elected
Perhaps not Kerry but Newt stands an excellent chance; he has more experience in government than many of the other candidates...
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Old 04-06-2007, 03:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Are you ready for an education?

"research has failed to identify any known natural climate-forcing mechanism that could have generated all of the unprecedented warming that has led to 1998 being, most likely, the warmest year in at least 1200 years. "

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/innews/warming.htm

"The IPCC also predicts an increase in average temperature between 2.5 F (1.4 C) and 10.4 F (5.8 C) over the next century, a rate of warming unprecedented in the last 10,000 years. "

http://www.globalization101.org/inde...s1=subs&id=161

Would you like more. These things have never happened before, so quit lying.



No, any action that limits how much carbon we emit into the air would not be wrong. It might not be the best solution, but it would be better.

That assumes that any solution attempted will not cause problems on par with what global warming does. Frankly, some of the crazier ideas I've heard about sound as though they could be at least as bad.

If you are talking about cutting back on those things that cause the problem, it's one thing. But solutions that don't do that and instead attempt to counteract it could be worse.
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Old 04-06-2007, 05:34 PM   #24
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Science & Environmental Policy Project
"S. Fred Singer was in 1994 the Senior Reviewer of a junk science report of the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution (AdTI) called Science, Economics, and Environmental Policy: A Critical Examination. [9] [10] AdTI was funded by Philip Morris and the Tobacco Institute."

Let's take a look at who they are funded by...

"S. Fred Singer, acknowledged during a 1994 appearance on the television program Nightline that he had received funding from Exxon, Shell, Unocal and ARCO. He did not deny receiving funding on a number of occasions from the Rev. Sun Myung Moon."

"ExxonMobil donated $10,000 to SEPP both in 1998 [21] and 2000"

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...Policy_Project

Singer is guilty of "organizing two corrupt science reports published by Alexis de Tocqueville Institution attacking the EPA, participating in the Tobacco Institute "Whitecoats Project", and co-hosting two fraudulent science gatherings."

http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-1993-1994.html

The dude is a fraud, through and through. His group is funded by oil companies.

Case closed...

Toby, I expect more from you. That was weak...

Quote:
Perhaps not Kerry but Newt stands an excellent chance; he has more experience in government than many of the other candidates...
IntheNet,

Why don't you condemn him as a sleaze ball as you do Clinton, after all, he cheated on his wife WHILE he led the witch-hunt against Clinton.

Can you say...HYPOCRIT!!!

Quote:
If you are talking about cutting back on those things that cause the problem,
That's exactly what I am talking about. Driving smaller cars, using less oil, and creating alternative fuel sources.
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Old 04-06-2007, 05:42 PM   #25
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Why don't you condemn him as a sleaze ball as you do Clinton, after all, he cheated on his wife WHILE he led the witch-hunt against Clinton...
Everybody cheats on their wife... it is wrong of course but if you are against that you might have to imprison the entire Senate and House! What the American people objected to, over and above the cheating, was that Clinton did it with an intern, repeatedly, in the Oval Office, then lied about it. Perhaps you can detect the difference; if not I'll draw you a picture. There is some hypocrisy here to be sure; Newt is no one to be casting blame. But, in the final analysis, I see a clear difference between the two... We should hold our president to a bit higher than Speaker of the House; hell look at that broad Pelosi...she's over meeting with the enemy... what a disaster....
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Old 04-06-2007, 05:46 PM   #26
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We should hold our president to a bit higher than Speaker of the House
Yeah, but you want him to be president, so your point is irrelevant.

Quote:
she's over meeting with the enemy... what a disaster...
At least she isn't in business with the enemy, like the Bush family. She realizes that Syria may be able to help us find terrorists. Are you against killing more terrorists?
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Old 04-06-2007, 05:53 PM   #27
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She realizes that Syria may be able to help us find terrorists.
Listen here youngster =>

SYRIA IS THE TERRORIST HERE!


They've armed Hezbollah and Al Qaeda and Hamas! Just like Iran! You don't barter with terrorists. That's treason...

The broad's a moron....
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Old 04-06-2007, 10:08 PM   #28
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SYRIA IS THE TERRORIST HERE!
Kinda like Saudia Arabia...
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Old 04-06-2007, 11:42 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Are you ready for an education?

"research has failed to identify any known natural climate-forcing mechanism that could have generated all of the unprecedented warming that has led to 1998 being, most likely, the warmest year in at least 1200 years. "

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/innews/warming.htm

"The IPCC also predicts an increase in average temperature between 2.5 F (1.4 C) and 10.4 F (5.8 C) over the next century, a rate of warming unprecedented in the last 10,000 years. "

http://www.globalization101.org/inde...s1=subs&id=161
Would you like more. These things have never happened before, so quit lying.



No, any action that limits how much carbon we emit into the air would not be wrong. It might not be the best solution, but it would be better.
Fresh, you can quote all the partisan research you wish. I'll use common sense and the fact that the globe has been warming and cooling for millenia. Look at the research from NOAA and other non-political groups.
By the way, your point is lost when you quote the IPCC. I do not trust anything the UN says about this, especially when they discount the pollution that is going on in India and China -- see Kyoto Protocols.
Sorry Fresh, no education was given here. I have already read all of what you posted and decided that it was not credible.

I have no need to lie to prove things to you. I would appreciate the discontinuance of accusations of this sort. The UN, on the other hand, just wants to bring the US down, so they find these people to say what they want them to.
Read this article and tell me that I am lying to you:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3869753.stm
Like I said before, this is nothing more than the climate going through its 30 year cycle, Fresh.
By the way, you haven't answered my question yet. Before you accuse me of something again, perhaps you should do so, OK?
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Last edited by catman; 04-07-2007 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 04-06-2007, 11:56 PM   #30
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Fresh, precisely what did I say that was a lie? Please document your proof, OK, but do this after you answer my question.
Again I appreciate your attitude of "do something even if its wrong". It is quite typical of the knee-jerk reactions that I have seen coming from your side of the aisle. A bit of research and planning goes a long way toward solving a problem. If your side would be doing this, as opposed to screaming "the sky is falling" all the time, perhaps I would take it a bit more seriously.
Again, I support any effort to clean up our environment through individual works. We need to leave the planet a better place than it was when we arrived here.
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