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Old 06-19-2008, 08:16 AM   #1
Anthony
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Question What Part of "National Emergency" Doesn't The Left Understand?

All this knee-jerk environmentalism has gotta go.

If we start drilling in ANWAR and offshore, recovering oil shale in the Rockies and temporarily lift the restrictions on coal, the same speculators who have driven the price of oil through the roof will drive it right back down through the floor again.

Remember that the speculators are trading in what are known, for a very real reason, as oil futures; when they "buy" oil, a truck doesn't show up at their house with hundreds or thousands of barrels for them to stick in their basement or something. This renders the "it will take five years, or ten years, for the oil to actually find its way to the gas pumps" argument irrelevant, even if it is largely true: If the speculators know that the energy supply is about to be glutted, they'll dump those futures faster than the Mets dumped Willie Randolph.

Why are diamonds so expensive? Answer: Because there are not a whole lot of them around. But what would happen if, instead of hailstones, diamonds began falling from the sky during storms? Soon, diamonds would literally have a negative value, as people would pay sanitation companies to haul them off their property.

And lest I be accused of citing a hypothetical example that will never actually occur, look at what did happen to silver futures in the autumn of 1979, after Nelson Bunker Hunt and his brother tried to rig the market, and got caught: The price of silver fell 75% in a single day (October 8, 1979, if I'm not mistaken).

If something isn't done to stop the ever-spiraling oil prices, there will be a worldwide great depression that will make the one in the 1930s look like rip-roaring prosperity by comparison.

And, as Ricky Watters famously quipped - For who? For what?

Last edited by Anthony; 06-19-2008 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 06-19-2008, 08:36 AM   #2
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Hmmmm, the left?

Is John McCain part of the left? Because he doesn't want to drill in ANWAR either.

It is quite obvious that the answer is not MORE oil. The answer is LESS dependence.

Perhaps Americans need to look in the mirror and realize that oil is the way of the past. The technology is available. With good, forward-thinking leadership, we will get out of this addiction to oil.

You don't help a crack-head by giving him more crack.

The European Union is going to pass a law that outlaws the sale of older, traditional light-bulbs and requires all new light-bulbs to be energy-efficient incandescent bulbs.

This will save around 7.5 billion of kilowatt hours in Germany alone, which translate in 4.5 billion tons fewer CO2 emissions. European citizens will save between 5 and 8 billion Euros (7.7 - 12.3 USD).

That is how you deal with "emergencies" like this one - MOVING FORWARD.

But we don't do that in America... Anyone who proposed an idea like this would be labled a "communist" by "the right."
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:25 PM   #3
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What do you propose to do to decrease our dependence?
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
What do you propose to do to decrease our dependence?
Individuals - Drive less, carpool, buy fuel efficient vehicles, take public transit (where available).

Government - produce alternative fuel sources, place emission standards on car manufacturers, provide incentives to car companies who strive for fuel efficiency (or move to alternative fuel sources), provide tax incentives for citizens who reduce emissions/fuel consumption, etc...
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Old 06-19-2008, 01:27 PM   #5
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I have done everything I can do to reduce my dependence on oil, Fresh. I do not have public transit available to me and I have a car that does well on fuel.
Talk to your buddy Al Gore about decreasing his dependence on oil. He uses a lot more energy in a week than I do in a year.
I do not appreciate being "preached" at by people that support hypocrites like him.
This said, I agree with Anthony's take here. We need to increase our ability to produce gasoline. We need more capacity -- no refineries have been built in over 30 yhears. We need to increase our production of domestic sources of petroleum. We need to utilize more effective methods of heating our homes than petroleum -- solar, wind, heat-pumps, etc.
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Old 06-19-2008, 01:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
I have done everything I can do to reduce my dependence on oil, Fresh. I do not have public transit available to me and I have a car that does well on fuel.
Talk to your buddy Al Gore about decreasing his dependence on oil. He uses a lot more energy in a week than I do in a year.
I do not appreciate being "preached" at by people that support hypocrites like him.
No, Al Gore's projects, employing thousands of people, use more energy than you do. Those projects go to raising awareness, providing information, and creating environmental advocacy.

Al Gore alone has done more than the entire state of Iowa to reduce our dependence on oil, so I'd say that the energy that is used in his ventures was well worth it.
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Old 06-19-2008, 02:42 PM   #7
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As long as companies like Exxon Mobile, Chevron, etc. that are pocketing 10s of billions of dollars in profits every year keep handing out checks to every politician with their hand out our dependency on oil will never go away. The oil companies make "contributions" to the right campaigns to ensure that funding for alternative energy gets squashed or limited as much as possible so that oil remains as our primary energy resource.

Drilling for more oil is essentially fighting a fire with a garden hose in terms of reducing our dependency on oil.
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Old 06-19-2008, 02:54 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by doublee View Post
As long as companies like Exxon Mobile, Chevron, etc. that are pocketing 10s of billions of dollars in profits every year keep handing out checks to every politician with their hand out our dependency on oil will never go away. The oil companies make "contributions" to the right campaigns to ensure that funding for alternative energy gets squashed or limited as much as possible so that oil remains as our primary energy resource.

Drilling for more oil is essentially fighting a fire with a garden hose in terms of reducing our dependency on oil.
Doublee, I'm beginning to think you are the only sane person left on this site...
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Old 06-19-2008, 06:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Hmmmm, the left?
Short answer:

Uh....yeah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Is John McCain part of the left? Because he doesn't want to drill in ANWAR either.
McCain IS open to drilling on the Continental Shelf, and for the shale
oils in the Rocky Mountains, Montana, and the Dakotas.

He's recognizing the emergency, and starting to change his tune on this.
Unfortunately, though, Democrats will probably call him a flip-flopper on
his positions, when it's really about recognizing a need to change positions
based on new circumstances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
You don't help a crack-head by giving him more crack.
No, you give him heroine or LSD.

Need for oil is not akin to "having an addiction". Moreover, the option
should not be "no fuel at all" which is what we are starting to face, and
which the Dems are forcing on us, by blocking the exploration/drilling for
oil at every turn. The answer for the crack-addict is to use nothing, not
switch to a different drug, which is why the analogy doesn't wash.

Like I've said quite a few times, I think we'd ALL love some clean,
wonderful, magical fuel source that meets all our wants and needs,
and doesn't create any environmental impact. But...these sources
are either not-here-yet, or they are infeasible.

Wind power and solar power cannot be easily harnessed in the amounts
we need (i.e. covering the entire state of South Dakota with windmills
just wouldn't be very doable).

Certain types of biofuels and fuel sources we haven't thought of yet
just aren't here yet. We're working on them...but we just having invented
the Di-Lithium Crystal yet.

Nuclear power would cut it, and, with our present technology, would be
REMARKABLY clean (the nuclear waste that could produce energy for an
entire year could fit into a pickle jar, and we have the technology, NOW,
to retain it for 10,000 years.) How come the Dems are against THIS???

But now, we need the dang oil, for freakin' crying out loud!! Why aren't
WE, the UNITED STATES, who has the technology AND resources to
produce enough oil to replace the entire Middle East, as CLEAN as
POSSIBLE, minimizing the environmental impact with high environmental
standards, actually the ones PRODUCING it ????? How come, instead,
are we just relying on notorious crooks and polluters to come up with the
oil, and price-gouge us to boot ???

This is insanity, and it's un-American.
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Old 06-19-2008, 11:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
All this knee-jerk environmentalism has gotta go.

If we start drilling in ANWAR and offshore, recovering oil shale in the Rockies and temporarily lift the restrictions on coal, the same speculators who have driven the price of oil through the roof will drive it right back down through the floor again.

Remember that the speculators are trading in what are known, for a very real reason, as oil futures; when they "buy" oil, a truck doesn't show up at their house with hundreds or thousands of barrels for them to stick in their basement or something. This renders the "it will take five years, or ten years, for the oil to actually find its way to the gas pumps" argument irrelevant, even if it is largely true: If the speculators know that the energy supply is about to be glutted, they'll dump those futures faster than the Mets dumped Willie Randolph.

Why are diamonds so expensive? Answer: Because there are not a whole lot of them around. But what would happen if, instead of hailstones, diamonds began falling from the sky during storms? Soon, diamonds would literally have a negative value, as people would pay sanitation companies to haul them off their property.

And lest I be accused of citing a hypothetical example that will never actually occur, look at what did happen to silver futures in the autumn of 1979, after Nelson Bunker Hunt and his brother tried to rig the market, and got caught: The price of silver fell 75% in a single day (October 8, 1979, if I'm not mistaken).

If something isn't done to stop the ever-spiraling oil prices, there will be a worldwide great depression that will make the one in the 1930s look like rip-roaring prosperity by comparison.

And, as Ricky Watters famously quipped - For who? For what?
Your first post was "bang-on" and all that was needed to be said Anthony! I thank God for your being!

Last edited by DETMURDS; 06-19-2008 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 06-20-2008, 01:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
No, Al Gore's projects, employing thousands of people, use more energy than you do. Those projects go to raising awareness, providing information, and creating environmental advocacy.

Al Gore alone has done more than the entire state of Iowa to reduce our dependence on oil, so I'd say that the energy that is used in his ventures was well worth it.
Fresh, your insistance that hypocrites are correct is amazing.
How many wind farms has Al Gore sponsored? There are 3 new ones, each one large enough to supply Des Moines annual needs. You are incorrect about Mr. Gore, but that is nothing new. Al Gore cast the deciding vote for ethanol in the senate. You have said that was a bad vote.
You are either misinformed or confused (2 choices only, per your norm). Which is it?
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Old 06-20-2008, 02:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
Fresh, your insistance that hypocrites are correct is amazing.
How many wind farms has Al Gore sponsored? There are 3 new ones, each one large enough to supply Des Moines annual needs. You are incorrect about Mr. Gore, but that is nothing new. Al Gore cast the deciding vote for ethanol in the senate. You have said that was a bad vote.
You are either misinformed or confused (2 choices only, per your norm). Which is it?
Right on,...we can't ignore the God's truth that is brought upon us!
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Old 06-20-2008, 05:16 AM   #13
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Quote:
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What do you propose to do to decrease our dependence?

First off, drill, drill drill - in ANWAR, offshore, everywhere in America and its territorial waters where oil is known to exist.

Second, on an emergency basis, suspend essentially all government restrictions on the use of coal, and immediately commence extracting the oil shale known to lie under the Rocky Mountains.

Third, lift all tariffs on sugar-based ethanol from Brazil, and nationalize as much farmland as possible in Hawaii and similar areas (Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, etc.) - of course adequately compensating the owners of same - so that we can grow our own sugar for use of conversion to ethanol.

After all of the above has caused the speculative bubble in oil futures to burst - which it surely will - threaten the oil companies with exorbitant windfall profits taxes if they don't reduce the price of gasoline in concert with the falling futures prices. Furthermore, impose admittedly draconian fuel-efficiency standards on all vehicles henceforth produced, with astronomical taxes - like 10,000 per cent - being levied on any vehicle whose mileage does not meet those standards.

In the longer term, a large number of new oil refineries and nuclear power plants will need to be built - by the government if the oil and other energy companies refuse to do so. And if these latter are completely recalcitrant, the entire energy industry can be nationalized (for which there is a precedent in American history: President Harry Truman nationalized the coal mines in 1946, to break a nationwide coal strike led by John L. Lewis).

That about covers it.
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:26 PM   #14
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In other words Anthony, more production is needed. I agree.
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Old 06-20-2008, 01:43 PM   #15
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No drilling anywhere...PERIOD. There's absolutely no need to drill.

Just another harried mess to feed more deep pockets.
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