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Old 02-14-2003, 09:10 PM   #31
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Man, this fool's crazy... Now he's makin' 40 points doesn't seem like it's alot, as he scores that much on a daily basis. His teammates must be shouting, "Yo Kobe, I'm open!" on their last seven games. Well, can't argue with the results.
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Old 02-14-2003, 09:22 PM   #32
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Right air_canada on the rules interpretation, however when O'Neal lowers his should and OBVIOUSLY leans far into a defender who ISN'T moving, just standing in his place, that is offensive. I think Shaq does this often, which warrants an offensive foul, however, the situation you describe air_canada occurs often too, which SHOULD result as a foul on Shaq's defender.

You say that Shaq gets quite a few calls his way air_canada. What about the flagrant foul situation I described above? Surely, everyone understands that , don't they?
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Old 02-14-2003, 10:10 PM   #33
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Yes, it's understandable. But considering that they are trying to slow him down from a motion that would ensue in scoring, it might be considered by most as a legitimate play for the ball.
This isn't always true, though. A lot of people who defend Shaq will simply push him, grab him, slap him, hit him, lean on him, and basically just make contact in ways that are actually all fouls.
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Old 02-14-2003, 11:26 PM   #34
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Not only are they fouls air_canada, they are FLAGRANT fouls by definition. Also, rules state any man cutting across the lane from side to side without the ball MUST not be impeded in his desire to get to a spot on the floor. Here too, Shaq gets ripped off. They push, bite, grab, throw acid in his eyes...anything to deny him his rightfull motion of moving across the lane. Not flagrants here, just personal fouls.

Again, if game was called by rules stated clearly, Shaq would be TOTALLY UNSTOPABLE, even much more so then he is now, and that is why they let this stuff go, cause this would be the Lakers Basketball Association and not the National Basketball Association.
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Old 02-15-2003, 10:44 AM   #35
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:lol:
Now see, if they called everything they should, then every team that actively competes with the Lakers would have to sign 30 sumo wrestlers.
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Old 02-15-2003, 12:11 PM   #36
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LOL @ acid in the eyes............lol!
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Old 02-15-2003, 01:33 PM   #37
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I think Kobe should already be compared to Jordan in his prime. Kobe is possible to become one of the top 3 greatest players of all time. And he still has so long to go in his career and he already has 3 titles.
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Old 02-15-2003, 04:42 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doug Graham
Good to see Kobe was dropping 40 a night without Shaq and they were winning. Wait, he wasn't? Give me a break.
Likewise, if you take Kobe out, the Lakers will be in the cellar of the league, no doubt. Shaq is more important because he is one-of-a-kind and can change the game with how much attention he attracts on defense, but the Lakers' well-oiled machine needs two parts working together.
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Old 02-15-2003, 06:15 PM   #39
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You could put Shaq on the Memphis Grizzlies and they'd win a championship.

Who quoted that? Becuase it's reality.
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Old 02-15-2003, 06:52 PM   #40
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LOL...............yeah OK Brian, except he never won with far better teams then the Grizzlies, like when he was with the Magic and his first couple of years with the Lakers, he has been in the league for more then the last 3 years................. and like Kobe has not won a title without Shaq, Shaq has not won one without Kobe.

So Brian that theory, like many of your theories, is lost upon the true facts.
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Old 02-15-2003, 07:13 PM   #41
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Didn't the Lakers go 3-7 without Shaq this year? OH YEAH THEY DID! Who was the Finals MVP for these past 3 Lakers championships? OH YEAH SHAQ WAS! Allen Iverson could win 3 straight with Shaq, So can McGrady, Allen, Garnett, Duncan, Carter you name it. Shaq has been winning the championships. Now that is a true fact jack. The Lakers without Shaq wouldn't even MAKE the playoffs, So is Kobe that good then? Shaq is why they win, this is such a silly arguement.
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Old 02-15-2003, 08:16 PM   #42
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Without Shaq, the Lakers wouldn't even make the playoffs Brian? THAT'S DEAD WRONG. And here is why...

First of all, this team is built around Shaq. Judging to see how far Kobe can take a team based on earlier this year is unrealistic. Running the triangle effectively requires two potent scorers ( Jordan and Pippen ring a bell?) The Lakers don't have the players to run an offense through Kobe.

A team built around Kobe, while it would not be the equal of a Kobe-Shaq team, or even just a Shaq team, would be a good ball club. I think it's safe to say it would be ATLEAST equal, and in my opinion solidly better then T-Mac's or Iverson's one man shows.
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Old 02-16-2003, 01:16 AM   #43
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The Lakers were 3-7 without Shaq this year. Does that not tell you something? The Magic's first 10 games they went 6-4 and the 76ers' first 10 games they went 7-3. If they Lakers offence is built around Kobe you say then why couldn't he win those ball games? If Kobe is amazing why can't he win without Shaq? 3-7 isn't a playoff birth if the season were to end there, they'd only get worse. History shows he cannot win without Shaq. Can he in time? Sure he can, But these past 3 rings Kobe and the rest of the Lakers have rode the Shaq Bus to NBA championships.

Kobe's job on the Lakers is to score and defend, Why can't Iverson or McGrady do the same? Because they can. Either one of those guy's or any other NBA superstar today could win with Shaq because he's such a force inside he seems double teams all the time, even triple teams. Which leaves guy's open on the court giving them space for a clean jumper or room for a drive. You obviously need a two-man punch, Shaq is one guy and any other superstar (Bryant, McGrady, Iverson, Garnett etc) is your second.
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Old 02-16-2003, 12:03 PM   #44
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The Lakers offense is centered around Shaq, no question about it. Shaq doesn't need to score to have the offense centered around him. Just knowing that Shaq is down low and can score on anybody, defenders will lean on every side of him, making everyone on the Lakers seem a hell of a lot better scorers than they really are. That's the advantage of playing with Shaq.

He does have total offensive domination over anyone and everyone. Truth be told, the only season Shaq averaged under 25 points a game was his rookie season. That's outstanding.
He also has never averaged under 10 rebounds a game and has never averaged under 3 offensive rebounds. Most, if not all of Shaq's offensive rebounds result in either a made basket or a foul. There is no way to stop this guy. With zone defenses now allowed, the defense can stack on Shaq and deny him the ball, but that allows open shots for anyone with a minimal amount of ball movement.

Kobe is an outstanding player, but he still has to prove he can consistently score without Shaq's mere presence and rebounding.
The mere presence affects Kobe and the rest of the team more than the rebounding does recently.
Take the game against the Spurs. Shaq had 5 rebounds. 5 rebounds. Kobe had 44 points and 6 rebounds himself. Shaq still caused havoc around the basket on offense. When Shaq plays, Kobe scores and the Lakers win. When he doesn't, Kobe scores less and the Lakers lose.
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Old 02-16-2003, 12:06 PM   #45
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Brian, did you even read my post before you responded?


OK, HERE IT GOES AGAIN. THE LAKERS ARE BUILT AROUND SHAQ. EVERY MAN ON THE LAKERS ROSTER WAS BROUGHT IN WITH SHAQ IN MIND...PERIOD. WHEN SHAQ IS INJURIED, KOBE IS WORKING WITH A ROSTER BUILT AROUND THE STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES OF O'NEAL, NOT KOBE. AGAIN, JUDGING KOBE'S ABILITY BY THE LAKERS RECORD WITHOUT SHAQ IS WRONG. THE OFFENSE IS BUILT AROUND O'NEAL, NOT KOBE... BRIAN !

IF KOBE WAS THE CENTERPIECE OF A TEAM, AND THE TEAM WAS BUILT AROUND HIM, LIKE IT IS FOR IVERSON AND T-MAC, THEN YOU COULD JUDGE HOW FAR KOBE COULD TAKE A TEAM. IN MY OPINION, HE WOULD BE ATLEAST BE EQUAL TO IVERSON AND T-MAC, AND PROABLY BETTER.

YES, IVERSON AND T-MAC WOULD THRIVE IF THEY PAIRED UP WITH O'NEAL, BUT ALOT OF GUYS WOULD. AND IF IVERSON OR T-MAC WERE PLAYING ON THE LAKERS INSTEAD OF KOBE, AND THE LAKERS HAD THE SAME EXACT ROSTER AS THEY HAVE NOW, AND SHAQ WENT OUT WITH INJURY, THEY WOULDN'T WIN AS MUCH EITHER.

Last edited by buckeyefan78; 02-16-2003 at 12:08 PM.
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