Go Back   Sports Central Message Boards > Community Discussion > The Lounge > Politics & Religion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-09-2007, 04:38 PM   #31
RavenPoe
All-Star Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 342
RavenPoe is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Graham View Post
Well sometimes when folks say stuff like "what republicans care about is money" and conservatives not wanting good education for children...leads to people talking about the "damn liberals". I don't see the point of attacking with petty generalizations and then complaining about that coming as the response.
I suppose that is a generalization. What I should say is republicans in power. Anyone seriously attempting to challenge Roe vs. Wade won't get any support from the party proper. The excuse is always "they'll never win due to their radical philosophies". Only those on board with the "real" plan get the campaign funding and necessary endorsement from established republicans.
__________________
-
-
It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them! - Nietzsche
RavenPoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2007, 04:46 PM   #32
IntheNet
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NOVA
Posts: 1,198
IntheNet is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenPoe View Post
Why then isn't a case coming to court that would overturn Roe Vs. Wade?
It will....Supreme Court Judges are appointed for life... we have one more swing vote judge that will retire... once that happens the Court will be stacked conservative (young conservatives too) and the Supreme Court will become George W. Bush's best legacy... and Roe v. Wade (abortion) will be overturned...
__________________
no vivzig pimps
IntheNet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2007, 04:58 PM   #33
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntheNet View Post
It will....Supreme Court Judges are appointed for life... we have one more swing vote judge that will retire... once that happens the Court will be stacked conservative (young conservatives too) and the Supreme Court will become George W. Bush's best legacy... and Roe v. Wade (abortion) will be overturned...
And what a day that will be. Not only will the US government be telling women how to deal with their medical decisions, but abortions will be preformed illegal and irresponsibly. Woman with money will go to other countries to have the procedure done, while women without the funds will go to illegal arbortionists, where abortions are preformed with coat hangers. You think current abortions are inhumane? Wait until they are made illegal. Women all over the country will die from failed abortions. And for what? For you? For the pope? Unreal.

It works the same way as illegal drugs and prohibition: is the act wrong, probably. Does making it illegal make less people do it, probably not. What are the consequences of making it illegal? death, crime, and unregulated practice. At least now abortions are preformed in the safest way possible. Making them illegal will do nothing to stop abortions, only make them more dangerous. Just like drugs.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2007, 07:47 PM   #34
BigBuddhaPup
Steelers lovin' canine
 
BigBuddhaPup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 584
BigBuddhaPup is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
And what a day that will be. Not only will the US government be telling women how to deal with their medical decisions, but abortions will be preformed illegal and irresponsibly. Woman with money will go to other countries to have the procedure done, while women without the funds will go to illegal arbortionists, where abortions are preformed with coat hangers. You think current abortions are inhumane? Wait until they are made illegal. Women all over the country will die from failed abortions. And for what? For you? For the pope? Unreal.

It works the same way as illegal drugs and prohibition: is the act wrong, probably. Does making it illegal make less people do it, probably not. What are the consequences of making it illegal? death, crime, and unregulated practice. At least now abortions are preformed in the safest way possible. Making them illegal will do nothing to stop abortions, only make them more dangerous. Just like drugs.

It is funny how the conservative idea of states' rights goes down the tubes when they might have a majority on the Supreme Court....

I suppose RU-486 will be much more if Roe is overturned... also in northern states, women will travel to Canada, and in southern states will travel to Mexico... and yes illegal abortions will be performed once again by well intentioned doctors as well as disrespectable opportunists... it will be a travesty against womens' rights if it occurs..
__________________
Namaste,
BigBuddhaPup

:thumbup: Go Steelers....
"So it goes"

Last edited by BigBuddhaPup; 01-09-2007 at 07:48 PM. Reason: typo
BigBuddhaPup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2007, 08:09 PM   #35
Montrovant
Hatecarver
 
Montrovant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tampa
Posts: 685
Montrovant is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntheNet View Post
Montrovant... at no point in your reply did you once stop to consider likely and/or potential harm to fetus with your accolades of procedure...almost like you think the amniotic fluid is to be harvested without regard to what deletion of it (a portion thereof) may cause...



What facts have you presented in support of reckless endangerment of fetus? Have you studied the deletion of amniotic fluid in all circumstances or are you jumping at the idea?

Let's test it... a few years may see progress...
Gonna try this one last time

IntheNet.....you realize that amniotic fluid is already extracted from pregnant women for reasons other than stem cell research, right? That it is used in testing for genetic defects? It also is used to make sure that the lungs are developed far enough if an early delivery may be needed. Here is an easy link with some description of the proceedure : http://www.marchofdimes.com/professionals/681_1164.asp

My question to you is if you are against using that amniotic fluid for stem cell research. I don't know if they can, it's a hypothetical question. But assuming it's possible, would you be against it? It would not involve removing fluid simply for research purposes.

I am not giving 'accolades' to this proceedure, rather pointing out it's a fairly common one and considered relatively safe for the fetus when done correctly by an experienced physician. I have never said anything about 'harvesting' or hinted at it I don't believe. In fact, the question I have been trying to get you to answer involves the use of amniotic fluid ALL READY REMOVED in normal pre-natal testing.

As to facts, I'm not the one who pulled the 40% analogy out of nowhere. I've provided a link to a site which discusses amniocentesis, and you can easily find many more. Just google amniocentesis or amniotic fluid, there's plenty. I've admitted the proceedure involves some risk (as most medical proceedures do). I've even acknowledged that if you think the risks involved in removal of amniotic fluid for stem cell research are too great, you have a valid point.

Amniocentesis is used. It doesn't matter if you like it or agree with it, people still use it in pre natal testing. That being the case, and assuming it is possible, do you have a problem with taking the amniotic fluid, after the pre-natal tests are performed, and using it in stem cell research?
Montrovant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2007, 09:25 PM   #36
Cure
Agnostic Cards fan
 
Cure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The Show-Me State
Posts: 116
Cure is on a distinguished road
Default

Why don't we use the discarded embryos from fertility clinics for stem cell research? What happens now is they are thawed out and incinerated... I don't understand how that is okay but using them for life-saving research is not.

And Inthenet.... where did you pull this mysterious 40% figure from? They don't hook up a shop-vac when performing an amniocentesis...

Here's a link to the Scientific American article about this research:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?cha...9FD71C1164C66D
__________________
"Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time" -george carlin
Cure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2007, 10:19 PM   #37
IntheNet
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NOVA
Posts: 1,198
IntheNet is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrovant View Post
My question to you is if you are against using that amniotic fluid for stem cell research. I don't know if they can, it's a hypothetical question. But assuming it's possible, would you be against it? It would not involve removing fluid simply for research purposes.
A few clarifications... (1) the 40% figure was simply illustrative...(2)...I am not specifically against using this amniotic fluid after sufficient research is conducted to determine what amount can be used with no danger to fetus...(3) even medical use of fluid for routine fetus analysis poses some risk...(4) what often happens here is an "if/then" type 'yes/no' fight between pro-life and pro-abortion (or in this case pro-stem-cell) supporters. It shouldn't be like that.

Montrovant: I am closer to supporting your case that you know; the point of contention is simple: Stem cells are to be used to help one person (Example Person A). Amniotic fluid is used during the development of another person (Example Person B). If helping B can be done with no risk to A, then you have a supporter. However, any threat to B to help A makes no moral or ethical sense... What needs to be done by the stem cell supporters is to conduct needed research to verify that no danger is present through such amniotic use (and I know a few studies have been done but not enough, in my opinion, to be fully confident...

Did that make my position more clear?
__________________
no vivzig pimps
IntheNet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2007, 11:46 PM   #38
RavenPoe
All-Star Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 342
RavenPoe is on a distinguished road
Default

Maybe IntheNet will be able to see what his party's really made of now. I give you a 100% guarantee, carved in marble, encased in granite that Roe vs. Wade will NOT be overturned. They won't even let a case get up that high. Mark my words, your young conservatives in the Supreme Court will refuse the case. Will you then see that something is amiss in your party?
__________________
-
-
It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them! - Nietzsche
RavenPoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2007, 11:48 PM   #39
RavenPoe
All-Star Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 342
RavenPoe is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Montrovant: I am closer to supporting your case that you know; the point of contention is simple: Stem cells are to be used to help one person (Example Person A). Amniotic fluid is used during the development of another person (Example Person B). If helping B can be done with no risk to A, then you have a supporter. However, any threat to B to help A makes no moral or ethical sense... What needs to be done by the stem cell supporters is to conduct needed research to verify that no danger is present through such amniotic use (and I know a few studies have been done but not enough, in my opinion, to be fully confident...
Funny then isn't it that person A dying in a senseless war to "free" person B is perfectly acceptable? Even if person A has a wife and small children at home. Hmm.....
__________________
-
-
It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them! - Nietzsche
RavenPoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2007, 02:15 AM   #40
catman
Humble MLB Moderator
 
catman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 9,328
catman will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Well Doug,
When conservatives don't support any form of welfare, and don't support government funding of schools (in large amounts) it appears that way. you can't say you are for quality education when you don't support more funding. The US is one of the few industrialized nations in the world where people still have to pay for college, just like health care. If conservatives would give up on the "tax cuts" idea it would allow us to fund and support better policies that allow EVERYONE to go to college and allow EVERYONE to get proper health care.

But no, you would rather fight to save the fetus. Skrew the kid who is starving or can't get medical attention. Let's put the fetus on the dollar bill, any takers?
Fresh, I'm a conservative that has no problem giving help when help is needed -- in the case where someone is attempting to better themself by going to school, I have no problem supporting their children in quality day-care (not to mention I have no problem with forgivable loans to people that need them and are willing to work in areas where their expertise is needed).
Your attitude toward "tax cuts" shows some lack of understanding of general economics, but that is for a different thread. Open an economics thread and I'll be happy to respond to it.
As a person that works in healthcare and has for over a decade, I can say that I have not seen anyone excluded from healthcare because they cannot pay for it. County hospitals take these cases, regardless of their ability to pay and the Government eats the charges. Sure they do not get all of the care that Donald Trump would get, but they get basic healthcare -- again, this is for a different thread (same advice).
To get back to the original tone of the thread, amnionic fluid is a great source for research. It can be safely removed (sorry InTheNet, but your objections are not backed by valid research), and is being analyzed in labs daily to see what else it contains that may be of value.
__________________
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans...." John Lennon

Catman
Rest in Peace, Buck. You were truly a giant among men.
catman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2007, 09:15 AM   #41
IntheNet
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NOVA
Posts: 1,198
IntheNet is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenPoe View Post
I give you a 100% guarantee, carved in marble, encased in granite that Roe vs. Wade will NOT be overturned....
I will breathe a sigh of relief when it is and praise the Almighty when the first woman is sentenced to life in prison for killing her baby! Raise up the rights of the babies and reduce the rights of the murderers...
__________________
no vivzig pimps
IntheNet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2007, 02:14 PM   #42
RavenPoe
All-Star Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 342
RavenPoe is on a distinguished road
Default

We shall see. When that day comes that you're finally willing to admit that it won't, think of me.
__________________
-
-
It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them! - Nietzsche
RavenPoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 04:27 PM   #43
BigBuddhaPup
Steelers lovin' canine
 
BigBuddhaPup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 584
BigBuddhaPup is on a distinguished road
Default

InTheButterflyNet, I am glad to see our country is finally coming to our senses...won't you come along? We will miss you....
__________________
Namaste,
BigBuddhaPup

:thumbup: Go Steelers....
"So it goes"
BigBuddhaPup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2007, 04:11 AM   #44
Anthony
Moderator
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 8,378
Anthony is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenPoe View Post
What republicans care about is money. If you look closely at the bits and pieces of the Christian agenda that gets actually supported with legislation instead of the tough talk during campaigns; you'll see that there's an ulterior motive every time. Stem cell research would cure diseases. That would be bad for pharmaceutical companies. You know what else would be bad for pharmaceutical companies? Banning abortion which is why they always talk tough on the campaign trail and forget it as soon as they're in office. Good thing they have us "damn liberals" to blame it on. We should seriously take a look at dropping our pro-choice stance. It would be hilarious to watch the synchronized back-peddling from republicans.


On the surface, the political marriage of the Religious Right and the Wall Street Right makes no sense at all, since the latter has never been noted for its religiosity (J.P. Morgan is widely thought to have been an atheist, and John D. Rockefeller was once formally condemned by the Pope for stating that "G-d gave me my money").

So what gives here? Outlawing abortion would clearly favor the rich relative to other classes of society: By raising the birth rate, you would increase the competition for a finite number of jobs, hold wages down, and weaken the union movement.

This is the real reason why the overclass wants abortion banned so badly - and also why they support continued floodtide immigration.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Source: Piazza Seeks Trade Marc Major League Baseball 5 11-21-2003 04:20 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:52 PM.