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Old 01-04-2003, 11:16 AM   #1
air_canada
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Default Thoughts On The Imminent Conflict With Iraq

I wanted to express my thoughts in a format outside of replying to someone else and creating international conflicts. I tried to approach this post in an objective manner.

First of all, I think the US is using this as one more step to gain total control of the world, which is what they seem to want to do. It's quite alright, since I prefer having the Americans control the world than anyone else. I imagine there is some link between large companies and the American government, though there probably exists no secret conspiracy "army". The US would eventually gain control of large petroleum supplies, both for internal use and worldwide petroleum sales. The US would benefit from the control of petroleum prices everywhere. Certain petroleum which probably have links to the American government would make large amounts of money, and having these links, the companies would eventually make the whole enterprise profitable for the government, able to use this money to gain control over other such resources, using the money to also gain some military forces, and quite possibly weapons of mass destruction. Iraq probably possesses some sort of weapons of mass destruction. I don't think they will make use of these, as the US possesses a far greater power in this domain. The US has an advantage with this as they can make potent threats towards Iraq and various other resourceful nations.

But there still remains the method used to gain control of the petroleum supplies; you can't just walk in and take what you want. This is reinforced by the other countries which have a large impact in the UN. These countries, by cooperating, would further reinforce American impact in the UN, allowing them to possibly gain some amounts of petroleum. In return, the countries would possibly receive certain amounts of money and/or resources, as well as commercial relationships becoming more friendly.
Most countries do not want, and probably should not, get involved in this conflict, but with the cash, petroleum, and enhanced relationships, all giving more money to any country.

What of Osama Bin Laden in this?
There is possibly a link between Saddam's regime and Al-Qaida. All the money for supplies for this organization likely comes from some sort of profitable activity, and in that part of the world, petroleum is the most profitable activity. Therefore, we could see links to Al-Qaida with other petroleum-producing countries popping up if and when the US gains control of petroleum in the Middle East. There are also other countries which might be involved; one thinks of countries with bitterness or hostility toward the US and its way of functioning in international relations.
However, none of these nations have a fraction of the power the US has, so there might be a possible alliance between several countries showing hostility toward the US.

As a result of all this, the outcome should be interesting, but national security is at stake for certain countries allied with the US. Iraq knows these allies and that they have a lesser power than the US, so striking them would hit a soft spot in the 'capitalist' machine composed of all the countries who wouldn't mind petroleum and cash at all.

This is it. Thanks for reading.
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Old 01-04-2003, 11:43 AM   #2
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hmm, I just want to comment on several of your points as well as add some of my own.

Politics is not my area of study, that'd be computers, nonetheless I'm finding it more difficult now than ever before to avoid politics. Without a doubt, I believe there are political forces driving Bush's desire to attack Iraq. I don't believe that Iraq is the victim, or the innocent in this situation but up until now they have complied with new U.N. resolutions, even allowing inspectors into Palaces (something that was not allowed before). The U.S. claims to have intelligence proving the existence of these w.o.m.d. then why don't they share this information with the U.N.?

Is there a link between Iraq's Oil Wealth and Bush's desires for war? Yes, I think there is. It is public knowledge that Bush and his family (ie father) were in the energy/oil business and probably still have a huge stake in it still. Regardless, the war will cost billions, maybe even trillions and the U.S. will feel the need to recoup this costs somehow. Control over the oil industry would definitely prove profitable but at the cost of a country's sovereignty?

The main issue I have with all of this is that, the U.N. exists for a reason, a purpose. Some will call it a useless organization but remember that the U.S. of A had a huge part in the formation of the UN. So when it's whole purpose is undermined by the U.S. declaring war on Iraq, it's easy to see why this would set precedence for other countries to follow suit.

I think the Bush Administration should let the U.N. do their business and put the faith in the U.N. that caused this organization to form in the first place. With this developing North Korea crisis, it's scary to think that, in this day in age, we could have a WWIII. I just hope Bush will listen to his supporters, as there already have been protests of thousands asking for no war.
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Old 01-04-2003, 01:03 PM   #3
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A couple points...

It is not the U.S. making the decision to do this by themselves. It is all of its allies ... Great Britain included. You can draw any conclusions you want from it, but the U.S. is embarking on this war to secure the free world and dethrone those who threaten that.

I don't think this has anything to do with oil. The U.S. can get oil from a number of places ... including domestically.

Ravi, I know what you mean, but there are always going to be protests for no war, it's that way everytime, this is no different.
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Old 01-04-2003, 01:50 PM   #4
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I think if you're being realistic Marc, you'd agree that the U.S. alone cannot produce enough oil to sustain the rate at which it uses it.

And another point that you might care to recognize is actually quite contradictory of what you said, all of the US's allies are not with the US on it's decision to attack Iraq. GB is one of the few, in fact, if my memory serves me correctly, the only ally that has started recruiting troops for the possible war.

No offense intended, but I think it'd be naive to say that the only (emphasis on only) reason the U.S. is embarking on this war is to secure "the" free world. If that were the case, please tell me why the U.S. has not launched a war on other threatening countries, as Iraq is definitely not the only one.

Quote:
A preemptive attack violates the U.N. charter. The U.N. Charter forbids member countries from attacking another country except in self defense. If the U.S. puts itself above international law it will further encourage other nations to do the same.
And the US was one of the many countries which ratified the charter in 1945 when the UN came into existence.

A few quotes from a CNN article about 3 of the USs biggest allies, dated late December:

Quote:
Saudi Arabia, a prominent member of the Gulf War coalition against Iraq, still explicitly opposes toppling Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and any unilateral military action by the United States against Iraq.
Quote:
Germany has been outspoken in its opposition to a direct attack on Iraq. Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder won re-election in September in part because of his criticism of a possible U.S.-led war on Iraq.

The country's finance minister says Germany will not give a single euro to any war effort in Iraq.
Quote:
Iran has repeatedly voiced its opposition to a U.S. invasion of Iraq, even though the two Persian Gulf countries fought a long war and are bitter rivals.

Here's a simple look at the statistics. The USA is the biggest consumer of oil on a daily basis, consuming 19,633,000 barrels per day, 26% of all the oil consumed daily. It produces 7,717,000 barrels per day, only second behind Saudi Arabia. Iraq produces 2,414,000 barrels, which pales in comparison but considering the rate of production in '95 (575,000 barrels), a considerable increase. Now, take a look at oil reserves, Iraq has 112,500,000,000 barrels, only second to Saudi Arabi (10% of the oil reserves), much bigger than the US's 2%.

I certainly can't prove that oil is a motivation in this war, but I think it is a possibility.
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Old 01-04-2003, 08:48 PM   #5
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It has not been laid down that this is actually happening, but the US has far more power and does not need to conduct a war of this type to keep terrorists and affiliated nations at bay. And Marc, as for it not only being the US, have you seen my opinion on that? The US is also going through this war for somewhat of a raise of impact in the UN Council, is what I think.
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Old 01-05-2003, 12:20 AM   #6
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I don't want us to have to fight or have war with anyone. I hate seeing American boys coming home in body bags, but I do see Hussein as a threat to peace in the Middle East. So I'm for military action or for his removal. If no other countries back us England and Israel will. That's good enough for me.
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Old 01-05-2003, 10:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by bama4256
I don't want us to have to fight or have war with anyone. I hate seeing American boys coming home in body bags

yeah. i'm hooked on this hbo series band of brothers. got the dvds and im on part 3 of 10. it's hard to imagine what those guys go through. even 50+ years later and the mention of what happened brings them to tears immediately.
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Old 01-05-2003, 01:02 PM   #8
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The conspiracies, while entertaining to read, are baseless and untrue.

Now here's MY little conspiracy: We don't need to put our faith in the UN, we've already done that. I don't know what the UN's real purpose is, but judging by their actions, it definitly is not securing the unnatainable goal of World Peace Forever. They may not be able to attain World Peace, but I'm sure all the socialists wouldn't mind seeing World government, and that's what we are headed for. Just look at what's happening to the Soviet errrrrrrrrrrrr European Union.
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Old 01-05-2003, 07:50 PM   #9
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Band of Brothers is a reason why everyone should have HBO.
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Old 01-06-2003, 12:48 AM   #10
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We need to withdraw from the UN and move it to Paris and let them foot most of the bill of running it. It is a useless organization as far as I am concerned. United Nations my foot-I only see four or five countries that are united and see eye to eye lol

All I'm concerned about is how England and Israel feel and that's about it.
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Old 01-06-2003, 11:11 AM   #11
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I imagine you believe that world peace is reached by demolishing everything in your path and gaining control over everything in the world?
If that's the case, and that's what it seems to be, it's hopeless and stupid.
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Old 01-06-2003, 09:05 PM   #12
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Yeah, I guess that is why we took so much foreign land after both World Wars.
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Old 01-07-2003, 06:14 PM   #13
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That was the UN's decision... the US obviously has some impact in it, don't they?
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Old 01-07-2003, 08:10 PM   #14
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What?
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Old 01-08-2003, 12:08 AM   #15
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Yeah we are a pretty decent nation. After two World Wars we didn't take over anyone's country or land. Yes we had an occupation force in Japan for a while, but I think that was justified.

See countries like Russia and Germany took over countries during the war.

It is not America's aim or purpose to take over countries or occupy them.
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