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Old 04-07-2007, 10:47 AM   #31
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I do not trust anything the UN says about this, especially when they discount the pollution that is going on in India and China
These weren't UN scientists. The scientists were picked by each countries government. They are the foremorst scientists in the field, as picked by each nation. What more do you want?

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I have already read all of what you posted and decided that it was not credible.
So.... over 90% of the world's scientists are not credible, but the =3 or 4 groups that are funded by the oil companies ARE credible. Congratulations, you have defied logic.

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The UN, on the other hand, just wants to bring the US down, so they find these people to say what they want them to.
Again, these scientists were picked by each nation's government. The scientists that the US picked, said the same thing. SO... the scientists PICKED BY THE US GOVERNMENT wanted to "bring the US down?" Think about how silly you sound.

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Like I said before, this is nothing more than the climate going through its 30 year cycle, Fresh.
If you chose to live in the dark on this issue because you are so blinded by your political party that is fine. I can't make you trust science. If you really believe scientists are "split" on this issue then you have NOT researched it enough at all. All I can say is you are going to feel like quite an A-hole in 20 years when it is no longer disputable.

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what do you have to propose to fix the "problem" that I have not already suggested?
As I said, drive smaller cars, find alternative fuel sources, use more efficient light bulbs, and most importantly QUIT DENYING GLOBAL WARMING. You can't fix a problem until you acknowledge that it exist. As long as people fight this for partisan reasons, a large number of people will deny global warming, and do nothing to prevent it.

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Fresh, precisely what did I say that was a lie?
"Fresh, There are nearly as many "scientists" that disagree with your stance as there are that agree with it."

That is not even close to true. You are either lying, or you have not researched this topic very much. You can't find a single credible Scientific Group in the world that denies global warming. You can probably name 2 or 3, all of which I can discredit in some way. They are either funded by oil companies, or run by fraudulent scientists. I can list over 30 MAJOR Scientific organizations all the support the claims of global warming, including the most respected and important organizations in the field.

Therefore, your statement was either a lie, or just pure ignorance.
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Old 04-07-2007, 11:34 AM   #32
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Here you go, Fresh. A list of 60 scientists that disagree with your stance here. http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/f...e-4db87559d605. Note the credentials of all of these scientists.
Again, either prove I am lying or discontinue making accusations of this nature.
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Old 04-07-2007, 11:39 AM   #33
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Again Fresh, what do you have to suggest to correct this problem that I have not already suggested?
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Old 04-07-2007, 11:40 AM   #34
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Right! One degree raise in temps over the last 100 years,....global warming is a joke,...that is the name that should be removed instead of the Global War on Terrorism!
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Old 04-07-2007, 11:44 AM   #35
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This coming off the last mini ice age in the early 1800's. Of course the earth is warmer now than it was in 1900.
I am not saying that global warming is a joke, just that the earth has warmed and cooled in regular cycles for its existance. This is just another of the warming cycles.
Again Fresh, discontinue the baseless insults just because you disagree with my stance. I have provided the information you wanted, now its your turn. I would appreciate an apology for these petty insults, but do not expect one.
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Old 04-07-2007, 12:49 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by DETMURDS View Post
Right! One degree raise in temps over the last 100 years,....global warming is a joke,...that is the name that should be removed instead of the Global War on Terrorism!
Taco Bell causes Global Warming all on its own!

Have you had one of those Extreme Tacos? Man.... the gas.....

:lol:

Doesn't Al eat at Taco Bell?
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Old 04-09-2007, 10:01 AM   #37
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Here you go, Fresh. A list of 60 scientists that disagree with your stance here. http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/f...e-4db87559d605. Note the credentials of all of these scientists.
Again, either prove I am lying or discontinue making accusations of this nature.
60 Scientists vs. The rest of the scientific community.

Find me 6,000 scientists who dispute global warming and I will apologize. At this moment you were able to find a handful of people who dispute it.

You can name 60 individuals who dispute global warming, I can find 60 otrganzations, all of which are the most respected in the field, who SUPPORT global warming. How is that even close?

Find me one credible organization that disputes global warming. You can not.

You claimed that "nearly as many scientists" disput global warming as those that support it.

You lied, or you are ignorant, because your statement is far from the truth. Which one is it?

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Again Fresh, what do you have to suggest to correct this problem that I have not already suggested?
Acknowledge the problem, then we can work towards a solution. As long as people like you fight this for political reasons, no solution can be reached.

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I would appreciate an apology for these petty insults, but do not expect one.
When you can find the information to support your "BOLD STATEMENT" I will apologize. 60 scientists isn't enough. When you can find me as many organizations with credible backgrounds and funding, or a list of 100,000 scientists who dispute global warming, I will apologize.

Until then, I stand by my statement that you are either intentionally lying, or woefully ignorant.
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Old 04-09-2007, 11:36 PM   #38
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Nice try, Fresh. There are plenty more people just like these. I would recommend that it is you that is incorrect in this debate. You have said that I am woefully ignorant (untrue and I have proven it) or intentionally lying (also proven to be untrue). This is the response I expected to see from a person without factual backing for his statements.
This time, I will demand an apology for your baseless insults or you will receive a severe infraction. Remember, infractions can get you banned from this site and insulting other posters is a serious problem.
Again Fresh, I am not relying on the IPCC for my statements (I do not trust them at all they are trying to get the Kyoto Treaty ratified so the UN can have more power), nor do I lie to people. I will not change my ways just for you.
There are other opinions that could be correct. You appear to be a bit closed-minded in this case and I might suggest that opening your mind would serve the greater good here. I have said that the earth is warmer now than it was 20, 50, and 100 years ago and given reasons for it. I have offered an alternative explanation for this -- climatic cycles. I have supplied 60 reputable scientists that dispute your point of view. I have not lied, nor am I uninformed.
By the way, I do not know anyone that "supports" global warming, as you have stated. Misstatements do not do your argument any good.
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Old 04-09-2007, 11:38 PM   #39
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Fresh, the ball is now in your court. I have not lied. You have said that I have. Prove it or apologize.
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Old 04-10-2007, 10:14 AM   #40
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Prove it or apologize
I already have. Name 30 scientific organizations that dispute global warming and I will apologize. That's what it would take to make your statement true. I can name AT LEAST 30 reputable organziations that support the claims of global warming, I doubt you can name three.

The ball is in your court. Apologize for lying, or explain how 50 scientists is "nearly as many" as 50,000.

You can impose a "a severe infraction" if you like. I am not going to apologize to someone who is intentionally misleading people. Your statement is nowhere near the truth. Global warming is not proven, and there are some who dispute it. But the numbers are not even close catman. The percentage of scientists who dispute global warming is in the single digits.

So if I have to be banned in order to represent reason and truth, so be it. I'm not going to step down and let you lie to anyone who reads this thread.

Ban me, and lose one of the busiest posters on this site. Suspend me, and I won't return.
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Old 04-10-2007, 10:32 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by catman View Post
Fresh, the ball is now in your court. I have not lied. You have said that I have. Prove it or apologize.
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Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
The ball is in your court. Apologize for lying...

Catman and CKFresh: I have followed this discussion but stayed out of it (with due exception to post #36), due to two reasons. 1) Nothing will be proved herein relative to topic, and 2) I had nothing tangible to add to discussion. However, might I suggest that you both consider a simple fact: The last few weeks of weather, both domestically here in the United States, and that affecting greater Europe, has been significantly different that on record for this time of year. This could mean either "global cooling" or "global warming" depending on which meteorological genius one listens to. In any event, however, there is little we do to change this climate and assigning blame seems pointless.
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Old 04-10-2007, 11:09 AM   #42
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I already have. Name 30 scientific organizations that dispute global warming and I will apologize. That's what it would take to make your statement true. I can name AT LEAST 30 reputable organziations that support the claims of global warming, I doubt you can name three.

The ball is in your court. Apologize for lying, or explain how 50 scientists is "nearly as many" as 50,000.

You can impose a "a severe infraction" if you like. I am not going to apologize to someone who is intentionally misleading people. Your statement is nowhere near the truth. Global warming is not proven, and there are some who dispute it. But the numbers are not even close catman. The percentage of scientists who dispute global warming is in the single digits.

So if I have to be banned in order to represent reason and truth, so be it. I'm not going to step down and let you lie to anyone who reads this thread.

Ban me, and lose one of the busiest posters on this site. Suspend me, and I won't return.
Fresh, precisely what am I supposed to have lied about? I will not apologize for something I have not done. And it is 60 scientists, not 50. Another misstatement that costs you in your quest to prove that yours is the only opinion that could possibly be right. Another statement you need to prove is that those that disagree with your stance is in single digits, percentage-wise.
As to misleading people, you are the one being misled. I am stating climatological fact, nothing more, nothing less. The earth warms and cools in 30-year cycles, and has for eons. I have said that the earth is likely warmer now than it was 30, 50, 100 years ago and the reasons for it. You have disregarded these facts in your efforts to increase your post-count. Your insistance that my facts are lies is quite interesting. I have done a lot of study on our climate and have come to the following conclusion:
The earth is warmer today because we are nearing the end of a warming cycle. As I have said previously, if the temperature continues to rise for another 10 years, I might be persuaded to believe it is something else.
Now, Fresh, I have come up with many solutions to keep this from happening -- plant more trees, utliize alternative fuels, drive less, keep your cars in good condition, etc. What more would you have us do to solve this problem?
I expect a full apology for your insistance that I lied on this board and a list of potential solutions to this problem that I have not listed above.
The ball is in your court -- put up or shut up. I will not ban you for this minor infraction, but you will be penalized if you do not comply.
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Old 04-10-2007, 11:38 AM   #43
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I am stating climatological fact, nothing more, nothing less
This is not what I have a problem with, though I do disagree. I have a problem with your statement that says, "nearly as many scientists disagree with you than those who agree with you." It is simply not true.

You ask me to prove my "single digit" claim, but you are the one who made the original bold statement. Prove your statement first. Find me one statistic that says 50% of scientists disagree with global warming.

You say you don't trust the IPCC because the UN is "anti-American." I ask you to answer this question that you avoided earlier:

The scientists PICKED by the US government agreed with the conclusions of the IPCC. Are they anti-American?

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The earth warms and cools in 30-year cycles, and has for eons. I have said that the earth is likely warmer now than it was 30, 50, 100 years ago and the reasons for it.
Again, maybe you haven't seen all the information, but the things that are attributed to global warming are not things that fit into that "cycle." Here are some facts for you to think about:

- The hottest years recorded: 1998, 2002, 2003, 2001, and 1997.

- Since the 1860s, increased industrialization and shrinking forests have helped raise the atmosphere's CO2 level by almost 100 parts per million—and Northern Hemisphere temperatures have followed suit. Increases in temperatures and greenhouse gasses have been even sharper since the 1950s.

-The U.S. National Academy of Sciences, which in 2005 the White House called "the gold standard of objective scientific assessment," issued a joint statement with 10 other National Academies of Science saying "the scientific understanding of climate change is now sufficiently clear to justify nations taking prompt action. It is vital that all nations identify cost-effective steps that they can take now, to contribute to substantial and long-term reduction in net global greenhouse gas emissions."

-People are causing global warming by burning fossil fuels (like oil, coal and natural gas) and cutting down forests. Scientists have shown that these activities are pumping far more CO2 into the atmosphere than was ever released in hundreds of thousands of years. This buildup of CO2 is the biggest cause of global warming. Since 1895, scientists have known that CO2 and other greenhouse gases trap heat and warm the earth. As the warming has intensified over the past three decades, scientific scrutiny has increased along with it. Scientists have considered and ruled out other, natural explanations such as sunlight, volcanic eruptions and cosmic rays. (IPCC 2001)

Though natural amounts of CO2 have varied from 180 to 300 parts per million (ppm), today's CO2 levels are around 380 ppm. That's 25% more than the highest natural levels over the past 650,000 years. Increased CO2 levels have contributed to periods of higher average temperatures throughout that long record. (Boden, Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center)

As for previous Arctic warming, it is true that there were stretches of warm periods over the Arctic earlier in the 20th century. The limited records available for that time period indicate that the warmth did not affect as many areas or persist from year to year as much as the current warmth. But that episode, however warm it was, is not relevant to the issue at hand. Why? For one, a brief regional trend does not discount a longer global phenomenon.

We know that the planet has been warming over the past several decades and Arctic ice has been melting persistently. And unlike the earlier periods of Arctic warmth, there is no expectation that the current upward trend in Arctic temperatures will reverse; the rising concentrations of greenhouse gases will prevent that from happening.

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Now, Fresh, I have come up with many solutions to keep this from happening -- plant more trees, utliize alternative fuels, drive less, keep your cars in good condition, etc. What more would you have us do to solve this problem?
Wait, why list solutions if it is not a problem?

I think you have listed a few good solutions to this problem but I don't understand why you would have a solution to a situation you don't acknowledge as being real.

The only thing I would suggest on top of your suggestions would be to pay attention to our scientists, and read the facts, that clearly show this is not part of the natural cycle.
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Old 04-10-2007, 12:26 PM   #44
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This, however is not an apology, nor is it an explanation as to what I have allegedly lied about. These are owed.
As to solutions, you offer none, yet criticize me for offering them? Typical. I should not expect more than this from you, I fear. More crying "wolf" from the left without offering a single solution to the perceived problem.
I await your full apology for your baseless accusations and continued time-wasting on this subject Fresh. There is nothing more for me to say on this subject.
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Old 04-10-2007, 12:38 PM   #45
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This, however is not an apology, nor is it an explanation as to what I have allegedly lied about. These are owed.
As to solutions, you offer none, yet criticize me for offering them? Typical. I should not expect more than this from you, I fear. More crying "wolf" from the left without offering a single solution to the perceived problem.
I await your full apology for your baseless accusations and continued time-wasting on this subject Fresh. There is nothing more for me to say on this subject.
Interesting you ignore all the facts I posts and move back to this petty apology that you demand.

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As to solutions, you offer none, yet criticize me for offering them
I have offered the same solutions you have, I credited you and said those are all good solutions. Where's the problem?

My accusations are not baseless. Until you prove your BOLD STATEMENT, I will stick by my statement that you lied. There are not nearly as many scientists who dispute global warming. Prove it, or accept the fact that you made a bold statement that is completely untrue.

I'm not going to apologize until you prove me wrong.
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