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Old 01-05-2006, 10:54 PM   #1
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Default Bill Simmons ripps Pete Carroll - and I couldn't agree more...

Wow! Bill does number on Pete & USC.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/060105
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Once upon a time, back when I was still living in Boston, Pete Carroll did a terrible job coaching the New England Patriots. Eventually, they fired him. But not before I gave him the nickname "Coach Fredo" on my old Web site. Deep down, I always felt bad about it. Pete seemed like a good guy. Of course, that was the problem -- there wasn't anything coach-like about him. His teams consistently screwed up and did dumb things. His players consistently walked all over him and found trouble off the field. Even in his press conferences, beat writers found ways to undermine him and make him look bad. Poor Pete carried himself like a giddy substitute teacher for an inner-city high school, the high-energy dude who strolls in hoping to change everyone for the better and ends up getting duct-taped to his desk and covered with gobs of whiteout. That was Pete Carroll in New England.
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Anyway, here's the setup: fourth-and-2, 2:11 remaining, USC on Texas' 45 and leading by five, with the logical move being a punt that would force Texas' offense to drive 85-90 yards in 120 seconds with a quarterback who hasn't completed a pass longer than 15 yards all game. The decision rests in the hands of Pete Carroll. For once, he does the logical thing -- goes for the game-ending first down, keeps Reggie Bush and his Heisman Trophy on the sideline, then runs a predictable dive play with LenDale White that falls short because everyone on the planet knew it was coming (including all 11 guys on the Texas defense). Wait, absolutely none of that was logical. Texas ball.
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In one of the most amazing random sports blunders of all time, one of the USC players is forced to call their final timeout because they don't have the right defense for the 2-point conversion. By the way, there are only 19 seconds left. "My goodness!" Fouts screams.
(Sorry, I'm hanging that one on Carroll and his staff -- would anyone on a well-coached team think that the two-point conversion mattered more than a timeout there? Come on. That's beyond awful. Poor clock management, dumb penalties, no defensive adjustments, stupid decisions leading to turnovers, wasted timeouts for no good reason ... does any of this sound familiar, Pats fans?)
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:54 PM   #2
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I like Bill, but a lot of times he doesn't know what he's talking about. He makes good points about Carroll messing up parts of the game yesterday, but I always thought his criticism of Carroll's NFL coaching was overbloated. Carroll had a winning record when he was fired. Yes, Carroll probably did underachieve with an excellents Pats team, but considering who he was succeeding as head coach, he had lofty/unrealistic expectations to fulfill.

I thought Bill's running log on the Rose Bowl was definitely one of his worst articles in awhile. He admittedly doesn't watch a lot of CFB, so he doesn't offer anything from a sports perspective. And a lot of his jokes were downright lame (including the same ol' jabs at Lindsay Lohan, making fun of new ABC shows, the Reggie Cleveland All-Stars, etc). Nowhere near the quality of his NBA draft diaries, which have always been declining for awhile (but that's mainly because he, like all of us, don't know how well over half of the high schoolers/Europeans play). I'd prefer more quality and less quantity.

I think the overall quality of his articles has gone way down since around the first Pats Super Bowl. Back then, stuff was coming straight from his heart (re: the Red Soxs and Patriots). Now, it seems that he has so much to do (articles, More Cowbell, book signings, other celebrity-ish stuff) that his articles have tired jokes and little insight (i.e. see his weekly NFL picks).
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:59 PM   #3
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Carroll was a disgusting NFL head coach. He had no business holding the reins. Bill's jokes can be lame, but I liked his opening statement about Pete being the substitute teacher.... its true, when he came up to play w/ the "big boys" he got tossed around. When he went down to play with the "Kids" he excelled.
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Old 01-06-2006, 12:48 AM   #4
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I agree that Simmons has become pretty unreadable the last year or two. There's some good stuff in that link, but I hate HATE HATE Boston sports fans. (Except for Dave, who splits his background with Pittsburgh. And I guess I don't hate aloha, or anyone else on the boards whom I'm forgetting. But I hate all the others.)

I could be wrong about this, because last night was the first time I've seen USC all season. But isn't LenDale White, as more of a power guy, the right player to go with on 4th-and-short? And wasn't he ripping apart the Texas defense, on a night when Bush seemed to struggle? And wasn't Texas probably going to score, no matter what, if they got the ball back? I think Carroll probably made the right call. And if Simmons is going to keep ripping Carroll for what he did in New England, ESPN should hire a Browns fan to rip Bill Belichick for what he did in Cleveland. Shut up already. I f***ing hate Boston sports fans. It's almost (almost) enough to make a person root for the damn yankees.

And I'm not sure it's entirely fair to blame Carroll for the wasted timeout. The player called it, Carroll didn't look too pleased when they cut to him on the sideline, and he was diplomatic but still not pleased when Holly Rowe asked him about it after the game.

I don't think any of Simmons' criticisms of Carroll were merited. The rest of what he wrote, I mostly enjoyed.
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Old 01-06-2006, 01:26 AM   #5
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Angry Brad, where do I start? 1st off, "don't hate, congratulate" - the Wold Champion Patriots on another SB title.... lets cross our fingers Brad and hope they get 3 in row!!!! Now I know you hate me Ok, just messing around. Seriously...
I don't think its fair to compare Carroll in NE to Belichick in Cleveland. Belichick stayed in the NFL and became one of the best coaches ever, where Pete was booted down to the College level. If Pete stayed in the NFL and then won a championship, then ok, but no. Pete was told to "make like a douche and get the f--k out!"
and 2nd - On the 4th down call. I'm a little torn with the play call (if you're going for it). He had a point that EVERYONE knew White was coming up the gut. Hell, I was cheering before the play "Let's go White". So why not try Bush or at least line him up in the back as a decoy? Element of surprise? But that's not the issue with me. I say punt it. You said Texas would of scored anyway, but think about this. Texas got the ball at midfield and scored w/ 19 seconds left. Who knows if they could of scored a TD had they got the ball at their 20 (or less)?
Yeah, hindsite is 20/20.... I'm not saying Carroll is a bad CFB coach. I think he's the best. But that's CFB, not the pros.
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Old 01-06-2006, 01:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boston_aloha
Angry Brad, where do I start? 1st off, "don't hate, congratulate" - the Wold Champion Patriots on another SB title.... lets cross our fingers Brad and hope they get 3 in row!!!!
I don't hate the Patriots. I kind of like the Patriots. I hate Boston sports fans. (I do hate the Red Sox, though. I'm neutral on the Bruins, Celtics, and area college teams.)

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Originally Posted by boston_aloha
I don't think its fair to compare Carroll in NE to Belichick in Cleveland. Belichick stayed in the NFL and became one of the best coaches ever, where Pete was booted down to the College level. If Pete stayed in the NFL and then won a championship, then ok, but no. Pete was told to "make like a douche and get the f--k out!"
Sure it's fair. Belichick's tour in Cleveland went about the same as Carroll's in Massachussetts. The Browns went 36-44, 1-1 in the playoffs. The Pats were 27-21 with Carroll, 1-2 in the playoffs. Simmons criticized Pete Carroll for what he did in New England, pretty brutally. It would be equivalent for someone from Cleveland to do the same thing to Belichick.

Re: NFL vs. college, they both got fired. Belichick went back to being a DC. Carroll became a college head coach. It's pretty equal. Belichick's success since -- and Carroll's, for that matter -- is pretty irrelevant. Simmons was talking about Carroll's tour in New England.

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Originally Posted by boston_aloha
I say punt it. You said Texas would of scored anyway, but think about this. Texas got the ball at midfield and scored w/ 19 seconds left. Who knows if they could of scored a TD had they got the ball at their 20 (or less)?
Nothing's certain, but remember, Texas finished the game with a timeout remaining. Nineteen seconds and an extra timeout, the way Young was playing, was probably plenty to get them the extra 20 yards if USC had punted.
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Old 01-06-2006, 01:48 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad O.
I don't hate the Patriots. I kind of like the Patriots. I hate Boston sports fans. (I do hate the Red Sox, though. I'm neutral on the Bruins, Celtics, and area college teams.)


Sure it's fair. Belichick's tour in Cleveland went about the same as Carroll's in Massachussetts. The Browns went 36-44, 1-1 in the playoffs. The Pats were 27-21 with Carroll, 1-2 in the playoffs. Simmons criticized Pete Carroll for what he did in New England, pretty brutally. It would be equivalent for someone from Cleveland to do the same thing to Belichick.

Re: NFL vs. college, they both got fired. Belichick went back to being a DC. Carroll became a college head coach. It's pretty equal. Belichick's success since -- and Carroll's, for that matter -- is pretty irrelevant. Simmons was talking about Carroll's tour in New England.


Nothing's certain, but remember, Texas finished the game with a timeout remaining. Nineteen seconds and an extra timeout, the way Young was playing, was probably plenty to get them the extra 20 yards if USC had punted.
Yeah, I know they had a TO, but who knows. Kind of pointless to argue - just better off stating our opinions. But I can't agree with you on Carroll/NE vs. Bill/Clev. You just can't compare NFL to CFB. I could be a real jerk and say Pete's only Championships come from "Polls"!! National Champs because someone ranked them! Whatever... I'm not even going there.
But here's the thing... Bill failed in Cleveland, "regrouped" (or whatever) and won 3 Superbowls. Carroll failed in NE... didn't regroup, didn't win any SB's, he just fled from the NFL to the lowly college ranks were it is much, much easier...
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Old 01-06-2006, 12:21 PM   #8
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Brad,
First, I'm glad to hear that you don't hate me.

Second, I generally don't consider myself a Boston fan. I'm a Red Sox fan. But, I despise the Bruins and have always had a disdain for the Celtics. I like the Pats okay, but discovered just how ornery and obnoxious and generally noxious Boston sports fans are during the Carroll era.

Third, the comparison of BB/Cle to PC/NE is a bit off, and by a sizable margin. Carroll was handed a Super Bowl-attending team that had potential to be better, and, in the minds of many a Pats fan, would have won had they not been betrayed by their filandering HC. (I tend to think that if Holmgren could coach a big game, the filandering HC wouldn't have been an issue, but since Holmgren--was it you who pointed this out recently?--CAN'T coach in big games, Parcells' more-than-just flirtations with the NYJ had an effect.)
But, during the Carroll era, the Pats got continually worse. Some of this rests firmly on the shoulders of Robert Kraft and Bobby Grier (Kraft for allowing Grier to ruin the organization as fully as he had). Some of the problems the Pats had during the Carroll are/were exactly the stupid mistakes exhibited by the Trojans Wed night. Bad game management, undisciplined penalties taken at inopportune times, etc.
(As an aside, it occurred to me sometime yesterday that the Trojans likely would have won the game if Norm Chow were calling the plays. He carved up defenses in college like nobody's business. He would have realized Byrd needed the ball half way through the first quarter, instead of waiting for halftime, as the Trojans did Wed. He would have rightly had Bush on the field for that 4th and 2 play, if they'd needed it. And, more than likely, he wouldn't have used him as a decoy. Though, lining him up at wideout on the play is a better option than not having on the field at all, which, no matter your religion, is a moderatly unforgivable sin.)

On the other hand, Belichick adopted a 3-13 team headed nowhere. He took the team to the playoffs in his next-to-final year in Cle. His firing always seemed wrong to me, because he had greatly improved a team that was very bad. That they had a bad year in his final year can't possibly have been all his fault. The team was dealing with the spectre of moving to Baltimore, and taking heat from the press and the fans.

Aloha: let's not get uppity, huh? Carroll is obviously a better fit for the college game. I personally believe him to be one of the worst NFL coaches in history (eclipsed in my memory only by Rich Kotite, to be honest, but there are probably worse), but going to a place and setting that suits him better isn't "fleeing from the NFL." And those lowly college ranks... Well, the number of teams who've attempted to win three championships (however you count them) in a row in the "lowly college ranks" isn't any more than a handful (without checking) and has been done as often as in the NFL, that is to say... none.
(Please note, historians, I'm speaking of only the modern era, which in my head begins with the merger. The lack of a 3-peat college champ (by any pollster) is actually much more reaching than the NFL modern era.)
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Old 01-06-2006, 03:52 PM   #9
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I was just stiring the pot....
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Old 01-06-2006, 05:20 PM   #10
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Simmons is an idiot IMO. You don't win 34 consecutive games with three seasons of 11-1, 13-0, 12-1 if you're a bad coach, period. The college and pro games are completely different, which as a sports writer Simmons should recognize, but obviously doesn't. It's just another example of his Boston homerism -- he's upset Carroll didn't do more with the Pats, and lets that cloud his judgment.

Secondly, I feel he's someone who has decided to rest on his laurels. People enjoyed the pop culture thing, so he now beats it to death, to the point of bringing in such references on damn near everything. Plus, I can't stand the constant homerism. You're a Boston fan, I get it Sports Guy. No need to remind me every paragraph. And you liked Lindsay Lohan more when she had bigger boobs. Good deal. Can we please have a "Best of Hunter Thompson" on Page 2, now?
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Old 01-06-2006, 09:06 PM   #11
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Carroll definitely deserves ripping over the 4th and 2 and I thought Simmons' method was entertaining and hit the nail on the head. Just a terrible call by Carroll. If people didn't rip that call people would sit around going "why aren't the media digging into that call?" Hell, Carroll isn't getting ripped ENOUGH for that dumb call. Some of his criticism of Carroll may be silly, but this certainly was warranted.
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Old 01-06-2006, 10:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 190 Octane
Simmons is an idiot IMO. You don't win 34 consecutive games with three seasons of 11-1, 13-0, 12-1 if you're a bad coach, period. The college and pro games are completely different, which as a sports writer Simmons should recognize, but obviously doesn't. It's just another example of his Boston homerism -- he's upset Carroll didn't do more with the Pats, and lets that cloud his judgment.

Secondly, I feel he's someone who has decided to rest on his laurels. People enjoyed the pop culture thing, so he now beats it to death, to the point of bringing in such references on damn near everything. Plus, I can't stand the constant homerism. You're a Boston fan, I get it Sports Guy. No need to remind me every paragraph. And you liked Lindsay Lohan more when she had bigger boobs. Good deal. Can we please have a "Best of Hunter Thompson" on Page 2, now?
Head, meet nail.

But wait, you forgot the constant name-dropping, the pissy excuses he makes when his picks don't come through, his tough-guy routine where he calls out athletes doing things he doesn't consider manly when you KNOW he would get his ass kicked in any bar fight (which he probably runs away from, after insulting the bouncer), his more general misogyny, his inability to construct an ending for any of his columns, his "check out this joke I made that made all my buddies laugh" routine, and those buddies themselves, j-bug, k-doof, rat, hoopster, and whatever ridiculous 4th grade names he adorns his friends with.

He just gives off the unmistakeable vibe of LOSER. But I can't deny I still read him because he is indeed funny. I just don't respect much about him.
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Old 01-06-2006, 10:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 190 Octane
The college and pro games are completely different
Just ask Steve Spurrier.
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Old 01-06-2006, 10:54 PM   #14
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Good grief. The way people are complaining about and attacking Bill Simmons you'd think he was a politician or something.

One of my favorite reads lately is his book, my copy of which is autographed (lunchtime signing at the Borders just about three blocks from my office--place was PACKED).

Has he dropped off a bit. I think it's fair to suggest that he has. But, as a father, I'm willing to give him a break, as he's still a relatively new father (I guess his girl is a tad over a year old now). Is he a typical arrogant Boston fan? You bet. Does that mean he deserves this kind of vitriol? Umm... I s'pose that's ya'll's prerogative.
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Old 01-06-2006, 10:56 PM   #15
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"ya'll"?????? Okay, what did you do w/Dave?

(sorry, but i have become nothing but one liners.)
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